Rules about stock dimensions.

[MathewC]

Hey all,

I'm once again building a hunting stock, and re-read the rules and took notes. They really leave a lot to be desired as far as how they are organized.

At any rate, I remember seeing somewhere that the rear of the stock cannot be more than 7 inches below the center line of the bore. I cannot for the life of me find this in the rules. Any ideas? Any design guides you use when building your stock?

I'm also aware of "the jig", which apparently only applies to standard rifles, but I'd like to know as much about it as possible.

Thanks in advance!
-Mathew

[acorneau]

You've touched a nerve so here's my two cents worth...

Currently there is no rule that says the toe of the stock has to be "X" distance from the bore-line. Some may disagree with me, but if it's not in the rulebook it's not a rule.

What 3.1.1 (c) says is "a hunting style stock" which is wide open for interpretation. A stock that passes inspection at one match may fail inspection at another based on the jury's feelings about what a "hunting style stock" actually means to them on that day.

My understanding is that "The Jig" applies to both Standard and Hunter rifle stocks but you have to be well-practiced at how to use it correctly in order to get an accurate measurement. The fact that only two exist and is not widely available for anyone/everyone to use to ensure conformity means that it is a hidden standard to be wielded at the possessors will.

Any governing/sanctioning body that uses such tactics should not be given authority to govern our sport. Publish accurate, definite, and comprehensive rules so we all can get on with making sure our equipment complies.

[No1_49er]

Hey all,

I'm once again building a hunting stock, and re-read the rules and took notes. They really leave a lot to be desired as far as how they are organized.

At any rate, I remember seeing somewhere that the rear of the stock cannot be more than 7 inches below the center line of the bore. I cannot for the life of me find this in the rules. Any ideas? Any design guides you use when building your stock?

I'm also aware of "the jig", which apparently only applies to standard rifles, but I'd like to know as much about it as possible.

Thanks in advance!
-Mathew

Your memory has not failed you.
The 'NRA Silhouette Handbook', which is referenced in the actual Rulebook, does indeed include a drawing (on page # 20) that shows dimensions with the heel a maximum of 7" (178mm) below the centerline of the bore.
For reasons best known to the NRA you will not find this (hopelessly outdated) document on the NRA website. I was sent a scanned copy of the original by Aaron Farmer and have attached it to this reply. If I remember correctly, his response at that time was that they really must get around to updating it.
Rule 4.1 of the current Rulebook says "Targets for NRA sanctioned Silhouette competition shall be of the size and shape established by the scale drawings in the NRA Silhouette Handbook or as scaled to alternate distances in accordance with Rule 6.4.1 and Rule 17.5."
Unless this document is freely available, how or where do participants in this "game" get their target dimensions which are NOT shown in any recent iterations of the Rulebook?

[MathewC]

You've touched a nerve so here's my two cents worth...

Currently there is no rule that says the toe of the stock has to be "X" distance from the bore-line. Some may disagree with me, but if it's not in the rulebook it's not a rule.

What 3.1.1 (c) says is "a hunting style stock" which is wide open for interpretation. A stock that passes inspection at one match may fail inspection at another based on the jury's feelings about what a "hunting style stock" actually means to them on that day.

My understanding is that "The Jig" applies to both Standard and Hunter rifle stocks but you have to be well-practiced at how to use it correctly in order to get an accurate measurement. The fact that only two exist and is not widely available for anyone/everyone to use to ensure conformity means that it is a hidden standard to be wielded at the possessors will.

Any governing/sanctioning body that uses such tactics should not be given authority to govern our sport. Publish accurate, definite, and comprehensive rules so we all can get on with making sure our equipment complies.

Very well said. If I ever get the chance to buy you a beer, I owe you one.

[MathewC]

Hey all,

I'm once again building a hunting stock, and re-read the rules and took notes. They really leave a lot to be desired as far as how they are organized.

At any rate, I remember seeing somewhere that the rear of the stock cannot be more than 7 inches below the center line of the bore. I cannot for the life of me find this in the rules. Any ideas? Any design guides you use when building your stock?

I'm also aware of "the jig", which apparently only applies to standard rifles, but I'd like to know as much about it as possible.

Thanks in advance!
-Mathew

Your memory has not failed you.
The 'NRA Silhouette Handbook', which is referenced in the actual Rulebook, does indeed include a drawing (on page # 20) that shows dimensions with the heel a maximum of 7" (178mm) below the centerline of the bore.
For reasons best known to the NRA you will not find this (hopelessly outdated) document on the NRA website. I was sent a scanned copy of the original by Aaron Farmer and have attached it to this reply. If I remember correctly, his response at that time was that they really must get around to updating it.
Rule 4.1 of the current Rulebook says "Targets for NRA sanctioned Silhouette competition shall be of the size and shape established by the scale drawings in the NRA Silhouette Handbook or as scaled to alternate distances in accordance with Rule 6.4.1 and Rule 17.5."
Unless this document is freely available, how or where do participants in this "game" get their target dimensions which are NOT shown in any recent iterations of the Rulebook?

Okay so I'm not crazy! Thank you. I owe you a beer as well.

[Merlin]

Never knew that the cheekpiece of the rifle could extend 1/2" above the bore centerline....

[MathewC]

Never knew that the cheekpiece of the rifle could extend 1/2" above the bore centerline....

The forend shall extend a minimum of 8 inches forward of the forward edge of the receiver ring. The comb shall not extend above the centerline of the bore, but Monte Carlo roll may rise 1/2 inch on the off side. Buttplate or recoil pad may not extend below the lower line of the stock.

I'm using the NRA Rifle Silhouette Rules revision January 2020. I'm not aware of a newer one.

I'm designing the stock in CAD, so that's making it easier this time around.

[No1_49er]

Never knew that the cheekpiece of the rifle could extend 1/2" above the bore centerline....

The forend shall extend a minimum of 8 inches forward of the forward edge of the receiver ring. The comb shall not extend above the centerline of the bore, but Monte Carlo roll may rise 1/2 inch on the off side. Buttplate or recoil pad may not extend below the lower line of the stock.

I'm using the NRA Rifle Silhouette Rules revision January 2020. I'm not aware of a newer one.

I'm designing the stock in CAD, so that's making it easier this time around.

Mathew, the current Rulebook is dated (Revised) January 2023. I will post here but they are available from the NRA website.

[MathewC]

Sweet. Thanks.

[375Short]

Well said Allen “ if it's not in the rulebook it's not a rule”. If you liked an old rule or think something should be a rule but those things are not printed in the current rule book, although it may be a topic of interesting conversation, “it’s not a rule”.

I don’t find the jig in the rule book and certainly not the information one would need to build such an official device. The jig should go into the museum. I will say the jig is an impressive looking gadget and maybe a handy gadget if it conformed to known, published, current, rule standards.

With the wise and successful efforts to broaden Silhouette into a more recognized and growing international sport we need to be vigilant towards all rules being fairly simple, straightforward, easily understood, clearly published and easily checked / enforced. I know that sounds obvious but doesn’t describe our current rule book as proven by threads like this one all over this site.

[MathewC]

In my limited experience, the match officials are not amused by the ambiguity either. I took my scrap wood stocked rifle to a regional last year and was allowed to shoot, but was told if I brought it to nationals I would not be allowed to shoot it, and they would encourage that because someone needs to contest the above stated facts.

Their reasoning was not well stated, but "well it looks weird" was the general vibe.

They got out the jig, but that was not helpful because it makes some assumptions that didn't even allow my gun to be measured, one of which was the point at the back of the jig to perfectly center on the action. Mine does not have a centered firing pin protruding from the back so there's nothing to center on. I won't be subjecting it to the jig again as it put a scratch on the back of my action trying to line it up.

I don't know when I'll have the new stock complete, but I'll make an effort to drive to one of those events. Long driving for long matches with tons of people is not as fun IMO. Typically I just shoot a local match and try and better my own score. I supposed I could convince my local match director to DQ me and start the process that way.

-Mathew

[lone ringer]

Mathew, had they inserted a .22 cleaning rod from the front they could have easily figured out where the center of the bore was on your rifle.

[lone ringer]

The Silhouette Committee removed the measurement of 7" from the center of the bore to the bottom of the recoil pad because some tall shooters with longer than normal length of pull could not meet the rule without butchering their stocks and recoil pads. I have been shooting NRA HP nationals since 1978 and have seen and done nasty things to our rifles in order to pass the jig. Depending on who is doing the inspection, the rifle could be legal one year and not the following year.

[MathewC]

Interesting. Well my stock is coming along. I'll ignore the 7 inch rule and if it fails the jig I'll contest it I guess.

You guys are awesome with your historical knowledge. Thanks again!

[thauglor]

I think it was to stop the rifles from morphing into schutzen rifles