.308 Vs. 30-'06

savagefan · Post by **savagefan** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:44 pm

I hope this doesn't sound too stupid, I am wondering why .308 is preferred, with same case width, same velocities thru handloading, same bullets, same available rates of twist, same same etc. Why do more people compete with the .308?

chickenchoker · Post by **chickenchoker** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:39 pm

Better powder density. Less powder for the same velocity. More consistent ignition, a better chance that the powder is in the same position in the case. Shorter stiffer action. Less metal, less weight. The only thing going for the 30-06 is that you'll be different, and you have to were a funny hat with ear flaps so you wont have to listen to folks givin you grief.

Bill the Lurker · Post by **Bill the Lurker** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:07 pm

Everything Chickenchoker said,
however, a 30-06 will work fine.

When I first began down this path, I went to a local "pig" shoot.
40 shots at 300M pigs. I just wanted to become a better deer hunting shot, so I took my 30-06. I didn't know any better. Shot 24/40 first time. I have since realized that a 30-06 is a little much in the recoil department. I used a 6.5x55 mostly last year, and struggle to match my score on that first attempt.

Bottom line, if you want to try this game, bring what you got. It's a hoot.
Always time to become enlightened later.

chickenchoker · Post by **chickenchoker** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:32 pm

Bill is absolutely right. I've seen more people make excuses not to shoot. Keep your ear muffs on, kick everybody's behinds in a match and shutem up. You'll learn a whole bunch about handloading that nobody would be able to teach you from a book.

daisy · Post by **daisy** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:02 pm

I have been shooting silhouette for a year now. I have been using my Ruger M2 30-06 and have develop a great flinch at times. It also provided some entertainment late one shoot, as evening fell and I was throwing flames out of it. It has been fun and a lot better then just shooting rim and air.

I'll be shooting my newly rebarreled Rem 700 BDL which was a 22-250 and now a 7-08, in an 80 shot match in a few weeks. So far I have only shot 30 odd rounds out of the 7-08 to check some loads. It seems a lot more user friendly then the 30-06.

I hope to improve on my hp scores as I really suck with the big gun.

Next to come cowboy Ye Ha

Daisy

daisy · Post by **daisy** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:02 pm

I have been shooting silhouette for a year now. I have been using my Ruger M2 30-06 and have develop a great flinch at times. It also provided some entertainment late one shoot, as evening fell and I was throwing flames out of it. It has been fun and a lot better then just shooting rim and air.

I'll be shooting my newly rebarreled Rem 700 BDL which was a 22-250 and now a 7-08, in an 80 shot match in a few weeks. So far I have only shot 30 odd rounds out of the 7-08 to check some loads. It seems a lot more user friendly then the 30-06.

I hope to improve on my hp scores as I really suck with the big gun.

Next to come cowboy Ye Ha

Daisy

Gringo Grizzly · Post by **Gringo Grizzly** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:19 am

The '06 was THE competition cartridge for HP Rifle ....well, up until the .308W took hold.

It was about this time that the targets actually changed from the "5V" type to the "X" ring type our paper punching friends are still shooting today.
Some say the .308 drove this change as he M14 service rifle scores were better overall than the M1 scores.

Generally, most feel the .308 has better accuracy potential and less recoil.
Consider that one of the most common loads used in the .308 is 41 gr 4895/168 SMK. A comparative and often used load in the .30-06 is 45 gr 4895/168.
Less powder for about the same velocity.

One of the reasons .308s still have a following is that there's so much load data out there and so much good press - even on the history channel - related to the cartridges potential.
Indeed, I've never owned a .308 that I couldn't make shoot well.
I cannot say the same for some of the other silhouette cartridges out there - and I've used most of them.

The .30-06 wouldn't be my first choice if I were starting out now.
Neither would the .308.

But they can both be used for silhouette shooting.
I used an 06 for several years with darn good results - using a similar load to that mentioned above.
If this is what you have - don't be afraid to start off with it.

The above is related strictly to target shooting.
For hunting, a handloaded '06 is capable of higher velocities, especially with heavier bullets.

Gringo

savagefan · Post by **savagefan** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:06 pm

I hunt with a .375 HH and probably blow about 200 rds/yr at the range with it. I handload, I had a 30-06 Savage that my son wanted over a new rifle for his grad present. With a stuffed load of 56gr IMR 4350 and Hornady IB 180 it shoots honest cloverleafs. Long/short action is not an issue in a front locking bolt. I realize even in 1000 yd comp 308 is very popular whereas 30-06 is not. I haven't yet bought my rifle and although I'm set up for the 06 I'm seeing it's not the right choice, still don't know why. Thanx for the answers so far, Gringo may I ask what your first caliber choice would be and in what twist?

Evelio Mc Donald · Post by **Evelio Mc Donald** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:42 pm

Go ahead GRINGO give them the whole 30 years background of shooting High Power silhouette, I will back you up if you leave anything out. By the way, I am presently shooting a 6.5x55 and a 6.5x47 Lapua. great rounds, with practically no punishment.
Happy New Year.
Evelio.

Varn · Post by **Varn** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:15 pm

Gringo,
Definitely let him in on how hard it was to develop a load for a 6.5x55.

Gringo Grizzly · Post by **Gringo Grizzly** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:43 pm

SavageFan,
I'll answer even though there's little doubt I'll get flack on the wire for it.
Oh well.........

If I were starting out today - and didn't yet have a rifle for HP Standard or Hunting rifle silhouette, I'd probably steer to the .260 Remington.

The truth is, there is no perfect cartridge.
Performance of the shooter is what counts the most.
There are some darn good silhouette shooters reading this and every one of them has a reason for their choice of cartridges.
HP silhouette shooting demands a cartridge that is accurate and yet, doesn't beat the daylights out of you in a 60 shot match.
There's a tradeoff and the .260 seems a good compromise between having excellent capability at the CPT's and yet enough pop to bring down a ram almost 100% of the time.
Anyone saying they've never lost a ram hasn't been competing that long!

However, it's pretty easy to get good .260 components & dies nowadays and it's also pretty easy to get decent loads with which to "start from".

The 6.5's have an advantage when it comes to shooting in the wind with relatively light bullets. These will seem like a pop gun shooting from the shoulder. LOW recoil.
I can't say the low recoil has helped me but there are too many good shooters out there that swear this is so.
Many shooting the .260 have found the 107 gr SMK or the 108 gr Lapua to be super performers and don't even notice the recoil.
You can then switch to a 139 grain Lapua or 142 SMK to give = performance vs a 7/08 or .308W at the 500 meter ram target.

I'd avoid starting out with a wildcat - they are fun to read about and even to play with - but you don't need this starting out!
Spend your time practicing instead.

My 2d pick would be a 6.5x55 but only if I could get it with a Euro bolt face.
I have a Tikka that shoots this round very well.

Anyone who can shoot a .375 HH is obviously not recoil sensitive!
If I were going to Alaska for brown bear this would be my cartridge!

However, you'll = your yearly 200 round output of H&H fodder in about a week just getting your loads together in this sport!

And.......that's the fun of it. And the reason many of us started shooting silhouette rifle.
We get to shoot A LOT! No seasons - no bag limits.
And seeing the steel critters fall - especially the rams - is about as close to hunting as we can get in a target sport.

Good luck and keep us posted regardless of what cartridge you select!
If you select something other than my above choices, my dog will still love me.
I've used the .243W, 7BR, 7/08 Rem, 7/08 Rem Improved, 6.5x55, .260 Rem, .308W and yes, the .30-06.
I've enjoyed em all but the .260 is what I'd spend my money on if I were about to employ a gunsmith.

Gringo

savagefan · Post by **savagefan** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:00 pm

Thanx Gringo Grizzly, you've given me lots to think about. I also shoot a ton of .223 at gophers of distance and rimfire up close. .260 it is, looks like I'll have to start with a 14 in .308 and toss the stock barrel. Thanx to everyone on this great site for your help and all the best for 2008.

chickenchoker · Post by **chickenchoker** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:44 pm

Mr. GG, I assume that 260 would require a 1 in 8 twist barrel with a chamber throated for 139/140 gr.bullets?

Gringo Grizzly · Post by **Gringo Grizzly** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:10 am

SavageFan,
Reading your response tells me you may be about to do something you don't want to do related to HP Silhouette!!!
Assuming the "14" in your message refers to an M-14.

I may have wrongly assumed you're familiar with silhouette matches!
Send me an email at grbuss@yahoo.com.
I'll get you some basic information together!
Some of it can be found just getting into the steel chicken site - understanding the course of fire and how to do it will help you understand just what it is you're looking for!

The .260 - or a cartridge a lot like it IS a good choice.
But.....you'll need to get that cartridge into an appropriate rifle!
I love M14's and have one - and it can be used in special phase of the sport - "Military Semi Auto Silhouette".

If you have an M14 don't do anything with it!

\GG

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:59 am

Just based on his username on here (Savagefan) and the "14" he mentioned, I was assuming he was referring to something like this Savage model 14.

http://www.savagearms.com/14Classic.htm