new or revised hunter class

[BlauBear]

We actually do run a club match with half scale animals that's wide open, and it seems to attract new shooters intimidated by the fifth scale animals and those that want to experiment with open sights or unusual setups. It works great and I highly recommend it for any club, but it isn't an NRA event.

[Jim Beckley]

Ok I'll bite. I started shooting right after the Chin Stocks were banned from silhouette, at that time a few had dropped out of shooting because of it. I think if any changes were to be made it would just about put the last nail in the coffin, as far as silhouette is concerned, so my vote is no! That being said, my own thoughts are, that there is no Hunter class anymore. The rule changes have watered down the Hunter class so that just about every shooter is just using one gun. Case in point, there was just one Grand Slam pin awarded in HPHR and that was belonging to one G. David Tubb, then came the changes, especially the trigger change, when Sanchez qualified for his pin in two days at the Nationals last year, I believe Tony told me he was number 5. With that being said, I'll go to the line and shoot what I have, and you go to the line and shoot what you have and I hope we all have as much fun doing it. A parting comment if I may? Anything the Silhouette Director says, I'd sooner believe the 2 Clintons, Obama, and anyone of the Kennedys!

[sobrbiker883]

I just started shooting silhouette about 18 months ago, so my opinion doesn't come from a vast wealth of experience, take it for what its worth.......

I really like the game. I really like tinkering with guns. I really like my new rifles for both classes (I shoot a Pharr stocked 700 in HP and a matching Pharr stocked 1712 in SB). If you took away my 1712 I'd be really upset. Not for the reason that I can't have a cheater gun in hunter, because I could probably shoot my 64MSR standard gun better if it was just about score, and I shot it more.

I like having one gun for both classes and both guns for HP and SB set up similarly because it takes my equipment chase out of the question and I'm free to work on my shooting (which isn't all that great even with a fancy rifle).

People aren't flocking to silhouette, I believe, because it is a tough and humbling game. Nowdays too many are hooked on instant gratification and their ego's can't handle realizing that they may not be the rifleman their mind tells them they are. There's been many a day I've shot scores in the dumps with my "custom" hunter guns. The days I shoot a little better than my best are few and far between, and come when I've bothered to pay attention and practice a little, even if it was dry firing every once in a while at home, not when I've thrown money at the gun safe.

My best score in hunter HP came to me when I had sold my fancy McMillan stock and dropped the action in a BDL stock. I didn't bother to adjust the scope's eye relief and cut my nose on my scope in practice before the match. Bleeding, and with a crappy cheekweld I still posted my personal best.........

Its more the shooter than the rifle.

[Quonset Hut]

I'm bringing my answer from Behind the Berm also...

After having the NRA outlaw two low cost rifles I owned or were about to buy in the mid 90's in two sports, I'm not at all a fan of removing what was legal this year. Nor can Silhouette support more than two classes in SB and HP.

The same rule change (7.5 lb to 8.5 lb) for smallbore that now results in $2,500+ 54:18 Frankensteins also gave us my $275 NS-522. The rule change that gave us $2500+ centerfires with Pharr stocks also made my $199 Swedish Mauser Sporter eligible for Hunter.

People not entering the sport are doing so for the same reasons they did when your top of the line gun was $1,500 instead of $2,500+. They do not want to compete. Someone who wants to compete will start with almost anything, like the pawn shop Marlins with rings and 4-12 AO scope that my mentor put together for $125.

It's not the big buck guns that are stopping new folks. We haven't sold them that the fun of the sport is worth the time investment for practice and matches - and maybe finishing last a few times...

[BlauBear]

Sometimes I think we're swimming upstream. We aren't subsistence hunters anymore, and predators aren't a problem for most of us. The biggest nuisance animal we meet is a possum and we keep guns because we want to. My sons have very little interest in rifles and sometimes that breaks my heart, but they have their own challenges. As a culture we're becoming gun hostile and bedroom communities get closer to our ranges every day.

Saving silhouette will probably begin with air rifle competitions that require less space and equipment that is less frightening to most people. We don't need another smallbore class, we need more air rifle to get people interested and then active efforts to recruit them into smallbore and high power. In other words, a feeder program.

[deadeyeky]

Quonset: are you refering to a chin gun? thats the only rifle i can think of that was outlawed....

i agree BB

[Evelio Mc Donald]

My two cents, from shooting silhouettes for over 30 years. I have seen the evolution of every gun allowed, on this sport, which practically originated from standard out of the box hunting rifles, to very sofisticated chin guns ( which scared the hell out of any new shooter ).
Trying to implement another class into this sport, will make it more difficult for the poor guys running the match, and it will make more people stay away from it, because they will not have enought guns that will qualify for every event.
Look at pistol Sil. matches, they have at least 5 different events, with different guns that you can participate in,
The attendance is going downhill big time.
The rules they have now, are just about perfect ( NO MORE CHANGES PLEASE ) The way is going now, In the next couple of years everybody will be shooting the same gun on both classes. AND AS YOU ALL SEEN
WITH PRACTICALLY NO DIFFERENCE IN TOTAL SCORE.
My opinion is to leave it as is, or make it one class, all hunter class rules for both smallbore rifle and high power rifle.
As far as Air rifles is concenred, I started with a drop barrel cocking gun then a cheap ( $800.00 ) compressed air gun, and I shot a few matches until I saw this guys showing up with what look like out of space guns ( $2000.00 + ) for a pellet gun, and four different gun classifications that you could compete on, well that was enought to make me quit.
Excuse my spelling.
Evelio.

[metalhead]

Very well said Evilio...and who the hell cares if you cant spell for chit ?

[Fick_2141]

I would like to see prone silhouette small bore at twice the distance we shoot now. It would get the the 40X, M12, and other vintage smallbore
rifles out to stretch their legs. I would have two classes, scoped, and non scoped. I think I will just do that on my own, and see if it catches on.
I could be the father of a great shooting game. Yeah that's the ticket

[GTKF]

Tthere's little difference between the classes. Combine current hunter and standard. As has been said many shooters shoot one gun.

[Innocent]

As I am one of the shooters that has always preferred to shoot only one gun I usually try to stay out of discussions on this topic...but my observation of the entire process of rule changing with in the NRA over the last ten years is that Greg Conner in paticular is not responsive to the competitors requests.
That being said, and the intention of this topic is to try to come up with something that will encourage more particpation by new shooters, and not discourage them by "flashy, blinged firearms". I have seen and continue to encourage people to be willing to work around the NRA and set up larger targets for beginner shooters, have classes for iron sights, and at the very least try to have as many awards as possible, even if it is just a little 'match winner' '1st' pin.

We as shooters need to do what we can to support and push the sport and not expect support from our current rule governing organization, the NRA.

Mary

[BlauBear]

As far as Air rifles is concenred, I started with a drop barrel cocking gun then a cheap ( $800.00 ) compressed air gun, and I shot a few matches until I saw this guys showing up with what look like out of space guns ( $2000.00 + ) for a pellet gun, and four different gun classifications that you could compete on, well that was enought to make me quit.
Excuse my spelling.
Evelio.

That's a very good point Evelio. The Space guns are intimidating and the number of classes in air rifle are confusing so when I've started with a very nice rifle that's legal in all three (is that right?) classes and just don't worry about it. One lesson to learn early in this game is that for most of us you are your only real competition - the game is to improve on your personal best, not to beat someone else.

But I learned these lessons from small bore silhouette, an advantage new shooters won't have.

[Quonset Hut]

Quonset: are you refering to a chin gun? thats the only rifle i can think of that was outlawed....

i agree BB

Because of cheating or gaming on the high end, two stage triggers were banned from hunter. I called Greg Connor then and he said that some people were mis-assembling the standard 54 sporter trigger to achieve a two stage result. Victim - Mauser Model 202, which I was about to buy.

In High Power (Bullseye) Rifle, some fools became scared that the new .50 Cal rifles would somehow ruin long range shooting. Using that threat, they promptly banned all rifles over .30 Cal. from all HP events, not just long range. Victim - My family's 1908 Remington Model 8 in .35 Rem, which I was going to use to qualify for my DCM Garand.

[Quonset Hut]

The rules they have now, are just about perfect ( NO MORE CHANGES PLEASE ) The way is going now, In the next couple of years everybody will be shooting the same gun on both classes. AND AS YOU ALL SEEN
WITH PRACTICALLY NO DIFFERENCE IN TOTAL SCORE.
My opinion is to leave it as is, or make it one class, all hunter class rules for both smallbore rifle and high power rifle.
Evelio.

Anything that will cause the standard gun to be illegal will kill the sport. I realize that many of the top national shooters and some here have decided to build the "perfect" one gun under the newer rules. I've only been to one match this year, and none for eight years before that. Of the thirteen total rifles there, ten were box stock 54.18. I might be willing to upgrade my hunter someday to 1712, but I'm never giving up the big gun - it just falls into place on my shoulder...

[sobrbiker883]

come up with something that will encourage more particpation by new shooters, and not discourage them by "flashy, blinged firearms".

Every shooting sport I've been involved in has blingy guns. I can pistol IDPA type steel matches with my outta the box XD45 or my GI 1911, but you're not gonna get people away from their fancy raceguns either.

The playing field is usually levelled by class restrictions on the mechanics of the gun, and I feel the weight limit, stock layou and trigger weight rstrictions are they are now do just fine in diffferentiating between a full blown match gun and a hunter style gun.

Most cutting edge factory rifles built for accuracy don't fit hunter class-ie, Remington Sendero, Savage BV's etc........

I don't think its the beginners that are PO'd about blingy custom hunter guns, I think its old timers that feel Hunter should be a "box stock" category.