What's your deer rifle?

[BlauBear]

First off, I'm not much of a hunter - I lack the patience, hate field dressing (blood, feces, and flies are not my idea of a good time), and detest packing out the kill - but clearly remember a lesson.

First, "beware the man with just one gun - he probably knows how to use it." Then Kitty showed me a centerfire cartridge (.308?) with a really large soft point and very light load, and then explained it was a squirrel load from a man that only had - and only wanted - one gun. He just varied the load to suit to the game and kept using the tool he knew.

Because I'm a recoil wuss and a long shot snob, the 6.5mm seems like a really good idea unless you're chasing moose or bear (that seems like a definitively bad idea anyway). Am I dreaming?

[Bob259]

BB for an all around cartridge the 30 cal has probably the most all around bullet weight choices. But for anything other than real large game I would have to agree with your 6.5 choice.

[Bob Mc Alice]

A neck shot @672 yds. by an eleven year old?.....A 13 year old makes a head shot on an elk @ 572 yds. with a light .270 bullet ?....And a deer at 900 yds. with a .260 Rem. That is amazing marksmanship, or just plain dumb luck.

Steve, you being a highpower shooter, I believe you know distances in the field. I dont advocate shooting at live animals at such long distances. Too much can go wrong with such a long shot resulting with a poorly placed shot and a lost wounded animal.

I have seen a couple of videos showing hunters making extreme long shots on deer and elk. They were using the large volume 7mm & .30 cal super magnums with heavy bullets. Of course, the misses and poor hits were omitted from the video.

The body of an average deer is not very much bigger than a HP ram (the kill zone is smaller). The remaining bullet energy at 1000 yds plus is insufficiant to initiate any decent flesh damaging expansion.

Shooting at Al-Qaida terrorists is OK under these conditions, but game animals deserve more respect.

I hope that the guy behind the 6.5-284 has a solid rest, calm heartbeat, no wind to deal with, exact distance value and makes that clean one shot kill thru the heart.

[Jim Beckley]

I am not a big fan of ultra long shots, unfortunately every magazine article contains stories of animals killed at 1200 yards and with a cartridge that contains no less than 100 grains of powder. The once a year shooter then thinks he is up to snuff for such a shot because his favorite gun writer did it (it says so right in the magazine!). As far as the bullet size goes, I'll go with bullet placement over size any time. Manny killed his Buffalo with a 25-06 and George Hester killed one with a 30-30 that he uses for lever gun. In around 86 a guy I knew with an FFL was selling what was left of surplus Mauser 96's in 6.5x55, not knowing anything about the cartridge I ask him if they would work for Deer, he said that the Swedes used them for Moose. I bought it for a whole 89.00 if I can remember right.

[Pete A.]

Jim, I agree with you.

I worked a number of years at a company that had a large game ranch in west Texas for us to take customer. Over a several year period I was witness to 30+ kills each year. I've seen everything from 223 to 45-70. We hunted aoudad, axis, fallow, whitetail, blackbubck, mouflon, wild hoggs.

Nothing replaces bullet placement. I've seen plenty of "neck shots" lost, IMHO not a good shot. OK for skinny whitetails. However many different animals necks are built different. I do have to say I now feel 22-250 & 223 are "stunt" calibers for anything above smallish whitetails. IMHO whitetail deer are a pretty fragile animal thus too much extrapolation is made of results of calibers on them.

Our best result was with shoots in the shoulders with anything from 243-up. We tried like heck to reduce the distance. We would ask customers to pass up 200+yds shots. Steel animals don't hobble away with poor shots! Put a big game slug in the shoulder of an animal at a reasonable distance and you will recover that animal.

Ammo availability should be a strong consideration. Often customers misplaced or forgot ammo. 308, 270, 30-06, 7mmrem Mag, 243win are all typically available at the local hardware/feed store but good luck with 260 or others less common..

We saw plenty of problems with poorly maintained or complex guns. IMHO target knobs & power over 9-10x aren't of much use. When seeing all brands of scopes in this setting you tend to favor Leupolds. I can't remember a Leupold scope problem. Forget scopes with batteries!

IMHO a 'simple" gun in 243-300cal with medium scope (4x, 2-7x, 3-9x) is best choice. I could not tell the difference in effect from one caliber to the next. If a guy asks me I tell to look at the used rack and buy the best 270 or 30-06 he could find. Neither cal win matches but are accurate, easy to find ammo with quality slugs and quite effective on game.

Me I shoot ether a M70 pre 64 Featherweight in a High Tech Specialities stock 30-06 w/165g Sierra @ 2800fps & 4x Burris or a M70 pre64 with #2 shilen in 7x57 using 140g Partitions @ 2750fps & Leupold 2-7x w/2min dot. Like I said simple

Pete

[BlauBear]

Y'all make some really good points!

There is no substitute for practice. There are way too many folks that think a box of shells is a lifetime investment but still think they can make 200 yard kill shots with a $90 scope. That's just cruelty.

Pete, you're absolutely right about keeping it simple, Leupold (or better) scopes and readily available ammunition. .260 Remington is adequate for most game animals and dang accurate, too, but the General Store down the road probably doesn't carry that cartridge so, yeah, .308 or .7-08 might be the better choice.

[Pete A.]

Well the reality is outside of silhouette shooters the 260 is about dead. Few manufacturers offer their hunting rifles in this caliber. I hunt as much as any here and have only seen one 260 hunting rifle in any hunting camp I've ever been at.

Sure it is 'adequate' as many many other cartridges are 'adequate' but would I sell a good 30-06, 270, 308,............... for a 260 as a hunting rifle, no way.

Having said that when I've used up my ample supply of 308 slugs I'll rebarrel my big bore silhouette rifle most probably to 260.

Pete A.

[Jason]

You guys are making the case for me sticking with the old reliable .270 Rem as my hunting gun. I can literally shoot anything from prarie dogs to pretty much everything but grizzlies in North America with it, just by varying my powder and bullet. If for some reason my handloads disappear (the horror!), then any mom and pop shop will have at least a couple different loads on the shelf. No matter how much I try to convince myself not to use that old Mauser, it keeps winning the argument.

[BlauBear]

You guys are making the case for me sticking with the old reliable .270 Rem as my hunting gun. I can literally shoot anything from prarie dogs to pretty much everything but grizzlies in North America with it, just by varying my powder and bullet. If for some reason my handloads disappear (the horror!), then any mom and pop shop will have at least a couple different loads on the shelf. No matter how much I try to convince myself not to use that old Mauser, it keeps winning the argument.

You can argue with your heart, but it always win...

[sdwooster]

Well Bob you where right, I do know what my rifles do at all yardages. Just like silhouette shooting I have sight settings. I have been hunting these areas for around 12 years. If I don't think it can be killed we don't shoot it. The deer we shot with the 260 last year went 20 feet. It was hit behind the front shoulder and broke a rib and went through the heart. It even blood shot the rib cage. We where using a 141. So I don't see much problem at 1000 yards with the 6.5-284. And I know my partner can make the shot. If he can hit a hard hat at Ridgeway off hand out where the guys where shooting the bench rifles on practice day. Off a rest should be a cake walk. The main thing to remember. a 22 rimfire will shoot a mile and half. It says so on the box. Shot placement and practice just like silhouette.

[Jerry G]

I do agree that shot placement is the most important part. If you are afraid of the recoil of your gun and you jerk the trigger, the biggest gun you have won't kill the game because you will miss. American hunters seem to have a lust for anything that says MAGNUM. Short mags now days, ain't they great.

That said, 1,000 ft lbs on the animal will very easily kill deer sized animals. Take that number up to 1,500 for elk. I also think the velocities should be kept below 3,000 fps to improve bbl life and reduce muzzle blast.

I have run "sight-in" days at many ranges in MT, WY, ID and have seen people show up, shoot off of the bench and if they hit an empty beer case (24pack) at 100yds they were happy campers. Hell, that is the size of a deer's chest.

[Pete A.]

You know the quote about your heart is right on the money.

Read an article in one of the rags whereby the 'expert' in the magazine thought the newest 7mm Short Mag made the 280 Ak Imp pointless. On paper he made some sense but he seem to loose the whole deal with a round like the 280 Ak Imp.

It's that I could take my old but still useful M700/M70/M77 in 270, 30-06,..... and hve it rebarreled quite easily to a new cartridge that I then get to pour over ballistics tables, loading manual, bullet websites, powder types, primers, seating depths,..............., all the cool stuff true gun kooks like us love to do. Oh & I forget which barrel, who to do the work for you, do I need a stock too, shoudl I get a new trigger,.............

So if the 'ole 270 is boring the by all means get a new rig in a new caliber. Heck I'm kinda talking myself into a 280 Ak Imp here.

Probably the saying about the guy who has one gun is right on the mark. But theres a good chance he's pretty boring too.

Pete A.

[BlauBear]

Probably the saying about the guy who has one gun is right on the mark. But theres a good chance he's pretty boring too.

Pete A.

That may depend on how much load experimentation he's doing...

[glocker17]

Ruger 77, 220 Swift with Barnes 53 bullets and a full tank of H414 is good for almost 3800 fps. Has been instant death on everything it has been used on so far. Skinny deer up to hogzilla sized feral hogs.

Blake

[dwl]

Deer Rifle Update

Filled the second antelope doe tag Saturday. Changed rifles this time and brought the Sako with McGowan stainless barrel, Canjar trigger and B&C Carbelite stock.

Robert fand I saw the antelope from the highway grazing on the north slope of a wide low hill. We parked on the south side, geared up and started up the hill. We we talking quietly about our plan for the hunt and just as our heads rose level with a bench on the hill there were antelpe...15 yards away! Aparently there were two groups on the hill.

They had heard and seen us but they only backed away to about 60 or 70 yards. Robert looked at me, counted to three and we stepped up and took our shots.

Robert shot a Savage in 270 WSM. My 308 Win Sako was loaded with Hornady 180 gr Interloks over 42.5 grains of Varget. At less than 100 yards the speed was very high and the result was a big mess. I think next time I'm going to consider using a tougher bullet. The short shots aren't a given but the Accubond worked at 225 yards and the Interloks turned into a grenade at 70 yards.

Still the gun worked great. Just wish the hunt might have lasted more than about 5 minutes!

dwl