One gun at Nationals

[dwl]

Release triggers? My gosh. I ain't never seen one of them here. Must be one of them high priced fancy things serious soothers use.

I bet they're worth at least three points a match. Since my last two guns cost me about $1400 and my score has gone up about 7 points a match, then a release trigger ought to cost no more than $600.

Where can I get one for my gun? You think Duck's Gumbeau Sales and Salvage 'd have 'em? Might hafta get me one justa keep up.

dw

[possum]

Obselete equipment !!!!!!!!!

Guess I should have checked the rules before going out
and spending good money on what I thought was cutting edge
equipment.

Anybody have a use for a coffee can full of ball bearings.

What about it Kessey were you aware of the release
trigger on the equipment we were using. Now I know
why I was shooting myself in the foot.

Possum

[papabear]

I wonder if Mark Pharr can install a personalized stock for those protoypes.

But then again it might take a while to get it....

[ppkny]

I was at Ridgway this year and took a somewhat scientific poll of what rifles were on the line during the SBSR matches. I walked the line each relay and counted the types of guns being used. Not necessarily that they were hunter guns but whether they were in fact 'heavy guns'. I also verified my count by the color of the stickers on the guns.
In each relay almost to the number 1/3 of the shooters (33%) were using something other than what appeared to be a heavy gun.
My point was to prove to myself that there is a trend away from using a heavy gun at all.
The scores always were at least 4 to 5 points higher across the classes with the heavy gun but I don't think that's the case anymore. Unfortunately I don't have the data to compare actual scores to rifles.
I do really believe that the heavy gun is on its way out.

[nomad]

Did you mean that that score spread was across the typical 4 match aggregate as shot at Nats? (I would certainly agree with those numbers.)

What would be interesting would be to speculate on why the disparity is disappearing; assuming that we're right.

IMO, developed familiarity HAS to bring Hunter scores up at least as much as any real 'advantage' of the new stocks and relaxed rules. IOW, the "one gun, one ammunition, one trigger, one set of sight settings, one balance, one 'feel' " will probably mean more over the long run than anything else. I wonder if we've created a problem for ourselves in the past by switching back and forth between guns. (I've seen people who practically didn't shoot hunters except at larger matches. Their hunter scores, naturally -- when they actually dragged them out of the cases -- could be EXPECTED to be lower...)

Aside from the advantage that 'one gun' provides to the game by allowing shooters to be competitive with 1/2 the expenditure for equipment (an argument that I've always felt was overplayed in the face of what I think are the REAL 'heavy-hitter' costs of: travel, food & lodging, entry fees, etc) there are the added considerations that: 1. It's just more convenient. 2. As 'security' and baggage considerations worsen for anyone travelling, it's often almost necessary! and 3. I'd think that many are beginning to wonder if the heavy gun -- which would be a sure advantage in a more controlled environment like indoor matches or when used with the 'coat/glove/sling' aids of the ISSF sort of game -- may not be all that helpful under our more varied conditions.

It will be interesting to watch.

[ppkny]

I received the scores from the NRA 2006 SB Silhouette Nationals today and boys it's already happened. You be the judge:

Match winners top three average: SBSR 110.3 SBHR 108.3
Master Class top 10 average: SBSR 101.8 SBHR 102.4

[Gator]

PPKNY affords yet another bit of data to answer the original question. Nomad restated the issue of having the same weight, trigger, ammo, sights etc. being an advantage or not. To reinforce PPKNY I repeat the analysis made earlier of the top 13 shooters in each gun...

[quote]At the 2006 Smallbore Nationals, the top 10 Master scores totaled with the 3 open winners totaled 1349 points in BOTH STANDARD AND HUNTER. These are the 13 BEST Silhouette Shooters in the country, maybe in the world since we had 3 foreign countries represented. Didn

[Bob259]

So - is it in the gun. the shooter or as I overheard in Winnie "It is all in the Spotta". That ought to get something goin'. What say you, Possum?

Later Gator

It's all in the SPOTTA for sure !!!!!!

[kevinpagano]

With this much movement toward one gun I wonder when the heavy gun will become obsolete. I also wonder if Anschutz will start building a factory 5418 hunter rifle instead of the 5418msr standard gun.

Kevin

[BlauBear]

It doesn't take long to learn that most rifles, as delivered from the factory, are genuinely incomplete. So most shooters buy a rifle and begin tuning, either themselves or through a gunsmith. Should the rules limit "repairs" folks are allowed to make simply because some are more skilled in the shop than others?

Fortunately, I can afford good parts and reasonably dream about better rifles as my skill improves, but how many times have I questioned a rifle and had a better shooter pick it up and nail three in a row? Sure equipment matters, but practice matters more. You can't buy skill, but you can develop it.

Rules that describe limits and expectations are important, and revising them as the sport evolves is critical, but they can't perfectly level the playing field. What does level things out is the willingness to coach and share that everyone in this sport seems to have, and that has kept me involved more than any other single factor.

[GeoNLR]

With this much movement toward one gun I wonder when the heavy gun will become obsolete. I also wonder if Anschutz will start building a factory 5418 hunter rifle instead of the 5418msr standard gun.

Kevin

They do, it's called a 1712....LOL. I'm sorry, I just could not resist.

Seriously, I doubt it. The 1712 IS the defacto standard rifle on the line. It was built to the limit of the current rules (dementions, weight, trigger, etc.) and they sell a ton of them (from what I know). I would say Locally it seems that 80% shoot the 1712, I have heard the % higher at some ranges... I think it may be a little high, but not far off....

[kevinpagano]

Chicken, I agree on the 1712 but arent some using the 5418 because of the tunability of the trigger? I in no way have the skill to tell the difference in the two triggers yet but was just curious if we might see something like that with a Pharr type stock come out of anschutz if the trend that way continues.


Kevin

[genphideaux]

kevinp,

The 54.18 is the only repeater that currently annie makes in the supermatch action, the bench rest shooters use it also, making it a multi application action. It is sold in the complete rifle format and also as a barrel action, as far as annie building a complete 54.18 rifle using a tapered barrel, would this not be a marketing mistake when the 1712 seems to be in such demand and was built for our sport. But then again we have all seen companies do some crazy things.

Just my .02 cents

[cwdgun]

If anyone is interested I had the gunsmith that we all us in the southeast put a 5418 trigger on my 1710 annie without having to drill etc??? It is a cheaper way to get the better 2 stage trigger instead of going with the 5418 action, removing the barrel and replacing with a hunter barrell. I have used this setup since march, have had no misfires or any other promblems by going this way. Got the 2 stage 2lb trigger from champions and went from there. Anyone interested let me know. In my case just did not have the cash to go the other way.

[kevinpagano]

I was talking to an anschutz gunsmith here local and he thought that a 5418 trigger could be put in a 1712. He thinks he might be able to make a 5418 ms into a repeater but wasnt sure if it would be cost prohibitive.

Dawg, I think you may be right and I love my 1712, but tell me if you had a choice between a 5418 tapered barreled action and a 1712, which one would you buy? I am not sure which one I would at this point but was just curious which would be the hottest set up.


kevin