Approved or Registered State Match

[slowstdy]

Don't spoil the cake by messing with the icing, The Southern Nationals work, don

[chunter]

I am in agreement with Carroll.

Is the true motivating factor behind moving to an approved match because it is easier and cheaper or is it a wake up call for the NRA due to them jerking the club around with the air gun nationals?

I know that some days it is a lot easier just to shut the NRA out of the picture: less paper work, policies, politics, money, and the general annoyance of having your ass handed to you when the NRA decides to play by different rules. I tend to think that a lot of the NRA politics and policies are what drive away people, kill matches, and hinder new ones from starting (just my opinion).

However, I do see the NRA being the vehicle that allows us to be able have guns and shoot them. So there should be a balance with this Chicken and egg dilemma. Maybe the approved approach is that balance? I don

[GTS]

David,

I've watched as this thread has gone through it's various gyrations, and read with great interest the opinions of the many posters. It seems to me that the question asked in your poll is telling you what you need to know, but it's not telling you what the shooters would prefer. I know that you and the Winnsboro Gun Club do your utmost to cater to the needs and wants of the competitors, and you do a fantastic job of accomplishing that very thing. I do not care one whit if a portion of my entry fee goes to the NRA, and frankly, a five dollar reduction in entry fees isn't going to make or break anyone. You put on one heck of a match, probably the best dog and pony show going and I will always do my best to attend.

With all that in mind, I would respectfully submit that you are asking the wrong question. Knowing that your objective is to meet the desires of the competitors, I think that a poll asking this question would better represent what the shooters want:

"Would you prefer that the Southern Nationals be an Approved Match or a Registered Match?"

Respectfully,
Greg Sullivan

[lone ringer]

I also agree with Carrol, since rifle silhouette does not have another organization like IHMSA to fall back on we need to keep supporting the NRA, that organization and our own state associations are the only things driving our sport. I have been shooting at the state and national level since 1978 and I have seen many states like Nevada, Oregon, New Mexico, etc that used to have rifle silhouette programs and hosted state championships every year not have them any more.

It took us five years to convince the NRA (read Greg Connor) to host the first Cowboy Silhouette Rifle after the NRA started sanctioning the cowboy matches because they wanted to see a few Regional matches held to gauge their attendance. I imagine it is the same thing with air rifle so do not take it personal and keep asking the silhouette committee to host the air rifle Nationals.

[jebsr]

We as members of Winnsboro Gun Club are not asking shooters to not support the NRA (I am a Life Member as are at least 1/3rd of our members and membership in WGC requires that you be a member of NRA). We simply do not want to pay for something we are not getting (support and service). Adding a NRA air rifle nationals at our match would at worst be a break even proposition for the NRA and would probably make money for them. Remember they set the price for nationals. The only cost they would have to have is paying the scorers as there is no need for target setters, plus the club fee.
So not having it due to financial reasons is "B---S---"

Regards,

Jerry

[duckgumbo]

After having read the most recent posts regarding the original question, I guess that some clarification needs to be made for the uninformed.

Winnsboro Gun Club has hosted two (2) NRA Smallbore Rifle Silhouette Championship matches in 1996 and 1998 with much success. Our club rebuilt our range specifically to cater to this event and have the BEST smallbore silhouette renge in the world according to Anthony and Lynne Finn of Australia. We have been entering bids to host another smallbore nationals and been repeatedly turned down. NO OTHER venue has offered what we have offered to the NRA as we have the support of the Governor, Lt. Governor, State Senator, State Representative, Sheriff and Mayor and have the letters to prove it. According to Greg Connor (whom we do not have a problem with as he is just doing his job) the committee will only consider a site that can offer back-to-back smallbore and highpower sillhouette matches. What about Milroy, PA and Arizona? These were not back-to-back. He also said that it was too hot in Louisiana. What about 115 degrees ine the shade in Arizona and the record heat wave in Milroy where they SOLD bottled water?

After some discussion with the Texas shooters in Arkansas in 2005, we decided to host an air rifle state championship immediately prior to the Southern National Smallbore Championship to put enough competitors on the line so that it would be fiscally feasible to host a NRA Natiional Air Rifle Silhouette Championship. With the help of Bill Motl running the match (we do not shoot air rifle) and Don Strickland we were awarded the 2007 NRA Air Rifle National Silhouette Championship. We then secured funding from the State of Louisiana to put on these two matches. We get financial help each year with smallbore and the state is smart enough to realize what a week of tourism does for our local economy. Our Gun Club hosts the Southern Nationals each year for the benefit of the shooters to give them what they want and also to improve our local community with tourism dollars.

That being said, Winnsboro Gun Club (WGC) could run ANY NRA National event and send all the profits to the NRA. The problem seems to be that they had a budget cut and had to cut events. Our (WGC) problem is that we were given an event and secured Louisiana funding and now have been denied this event. We had pretty much forgotten about a National championship in Winnsboro anytime in the future until Dave Carpenter from Pennsylvania via England (hence the nickname "Limey") emailed me that he had a friend that was inquiring about rooms for the Air Rifle nationals and that his friend ONLY SHOT Air Rifle Silhouette! We realized that this was effecting our tourism!!!! and what the compeitors wanted.

WGC is NOT anti-NRA as Jerry stated that at least a third of our members are LIfe Members and I am personally a Patron member! We always attend NRA banquets and purchase one or two tables for support at these banquets. Terry Johnson is the Chairperson in Monroe and has his staff work the banquet on his payroll! WGC is just tired of being jerked around by the NRA Rules Committee regarding our hosting a NRA event. We are for paying for what we receive and that is NOTHING! Therrefore, that is why we are considering making this match an approved match and taking the money that would be sent to the NRA and paying the entry fees for the Junior Champions if they wish to attend NRA Nationals as well as better awards for the Southern National Champion and Resident Champion. The smallbore event will be better this year and the air rifle event will have awards and prizes similar to the smallbore event.

I appreciate the comments from the NJ shooter and the CA shooter and we definitely take them to heart and need to hear from more shooters with like thoughts; however. we really do want to know if any competitors would NOT attend if it is only a NRA approved match.

[lone ringer]

Duckgumbo, it seems that the thing to do is go over the heads of the people in charge of NRA competitions including the Silhouette Committee and go through your reps, board members, Secretary or even the NRA

[ajj]

Ringer, your guess is as good as mine but I doubt that your suggestion would accomplish anything. I don't believe that the NRA AS AN ORGANIZATION has any real interest in competitive shooting these days, other than as a means to generate a little revenue. David will correct me if I'm wrong but I figure that if he can't get the attention of the committee, nothing is going to happen. Life member here, just an observation.

[slowstdy]

Ajj, I'm not so sure, 786 people have viewed this post, 37 have posted replies, 31 voted. If the 31 who voted call their regional director, phone numbers can be found hear:
http://www.nrahq.org/fieldreps/index.asp
Called Michael Krel, Sports Admin Director 703-267-1460.
At the very least they will know that people are not happy with the NRA rescinding a decision that the silhouette committee has made.
I for one will call my Regional Director Brian Hyder. I am sure it will only help WGC.

[duckgumbo]

Lone Ringer,

Thanks for the advice, but we have already done what you have advised. We sent letters to Charleston Heston and all the powers to be at the time and were able to get Greg to tell us that if we could find a club within one day's driving distance from Winnsboro Gun Club that could host the highpower event, then we could host a smallbore nationals. We feel it is his job to find a host club! We will NEVER put in a bid for smallbore nationals as the Southern Nationals exceeds the NRA Nationals in both attendance and quality. If you doubt my statement, just ask some of our regular attendees that also go to NRA Nationals.

The air rifle venue is a perfect match for what we do and the only reason that we wanted to host one (we do not shoot air rifle silhouette at this time) is that the Texas shooters wanted us to hold an event and see how many shooters we could bring to the event. We had almost 100 competitors the first year! WGC does not care one iota if the air rifle event makes money as we are doing it for the shooters and as long as we break even, we are happy to accomodate them.

As far as us writing letters, making calls, etc. to the "people in charge, we will not go to the effort as we have gone far and above what we feel is needed to host an air rifle nationals. As AJJ said, the NRA is not concerned with the competitive shooters and only getting members and defending our rights. I do not have a problem with that, but if the NRA would quit mailing me bullshit propaganda as well as membership solititation pamplets, they could take that postage money and send it to the competitors!

I would venture to say that 98% of the members File 13 all regular correspodence from them.

[genphideaux]

Limeaux,

Thanks,
Mr. Kingsafer, our rep for MS has been contacted and has an e-mail sent concerning this issue. He was very reseptive and said he would contact the key players and try to get a resolve that best suited the shooters.

Now, all the rest of you get the paper and pens going and contact your rep's, that is why we pay dues.

[slowstdy]

YOU go Dawg.

David, The Southern Nationals are way above any match I have ever attended in the USA and the world, as you know I travel all over the US. The Southern Nationals are so good it needs no references; it is the match that all others are judged against. Which is Why I drive 2,700 miles round trip.
I can understand your point about not wanting to make calls etc. I, as one of the shooters who want an Air Rifle Nationals, and I want it at Winnsboro, will be making calls. I feel if you are prepared to make the effort and it will cost the NRA nothing, in fact the NRA will make money (registration fee for each competitor), Plus I assume if they do let you run the Air Rifle Nationals the Southern Nationals will be a registered match. Then as Jerry has said, it is BS regards budget concerns.
I have called my regional rep, Brian Hyder, who was very helpful, see

[slowstdy]

Called Michael Krei this morning at 9.00am. His assistant said he would call me back, its now 5.30pm no call received. Not the response I was looking for.
So I don