Anything from the Cowboy Nationals?

[Innocent]

My comment to the above remarks are that at least one copy of the petition that was ciruclated (at matches) to have Greg Conner fired was being circulated by a member of the silhouette committee. That should tell you something.

Mary

[glen ring]

My wife was really inspired by the quality of the woman shooters at the nationals. She was inspired by their grace , fair mindedness during any drama and by the way they kicked my rear end with their shooting. Does anyone recommend a good shooting book/video that she could purchase that would help her ( and me ) on stance, trigger control etc....

Watching the great woman shooters compete has shown her that women can be competitive in this sport, and great competitors like Meridith Taylor , Jeanne Hershey and Kathleen Garvin are super role models for not only us, but future competitors as well.

Any book or video recommendation will be very welcome.

[Bob259]

While not based on Lever Gun these are fine books on the basics which carry over to all shooting

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/pr ... 316&page=2

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/pr ... 316&page=1

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/pr ... 316&page=1

[Innocent]

Lanny Bassham (With Winning in Mind) has also authored some books on shooting. My other suggestion would be to go way back to Bill Pullum and Position Rifle Shooting. THe basics are well written in this book
and are what have carried many a great shooter, including Wigger to the top.

Mary

[glen ring]

Thank you Bob. We appreciate it.

[lijeboy]

Mary:

Circulating a petition is one thing; garnering enough signatures to submit it is quite another. Wonder what it would take to get a petition going to ban problem competitors from the matches? Just thinking out loud.

[Bob259]

Lanny Bassham (With Winning in Mind) has also authored some books on shooting. My other suggestion would be to go way back to Bill Pullum and Position Rifle Shooting. THe basics are well written in this book and are what have carried many a great shooter, including Wigger to the top. Mary

I agree with Mary that the Bill Pullman book is an excellent choice also. He also has a newer release available as well.

Look around and you can find them cheaper, but I just pulled them up on Amazon so you could see them
Original
http://www.amazon.com/Position-Rifle-Sh ... 136&sr=1-3
Newer Version
http://www.amazon.com/New-Position-Rifl ... 136&sr=1-2

[Innocent]

lijeboy, I am aware of over 120 signatures on petition at a match. As for gathering petition to ban the problem shooters, lol.. with all due respect some of the 'problem shooters have been around for a long time 30+ years and have seen the decline in the sport, for various reasons, and most of them are the ones that have reason to open their mouth. When you have travelled to as many matches in many different states (and countries in many cases) you tend to see what brings out the family as well as the shooters, and what doesn't.

Example, there are large groups of silhouette shooters at three ranges in SE NM, they shoot all kinds of silhouette, you mention the NRA to them and ther response is the same. "They do not listen to the competitors and match directors so we want nothing to do with them." Same in El Paso, you can shoot a silhouette match every weekend there, most are not NRA approved because they do not agree with the changes to the rules.
Most of the posts on this forum talk about match directors letting you shoot what you bring as long as it doesn't damage the targets, what are they really saying?

As for the rifles and shooters that push the rules, my experience over the short 34 years of competitons in silhouette (and 16 of that also included being match a director of a local match that over 90 shooters regularly)....we need the rule pushers to improve the equipment. Just as I respect the bench rest shooters, most of them are too old to want to stand anymore and are now more interested in the details of perfection of the equipment, great technicians and valuable to all forms of shooting.

on a side note, curious about the lije part of you name? Source?

Mary

[lijeboy]

Mary:

Man-alive! You've got a load of experience, don't you? Guess there's nothing that can be said to sway your opinion so I'll not try. Just be mindful, and respectful, please, of the fact that we don't all agree with you.

Outlaw Josey Wales. "Watch 'im, Lije! He's meaner than a rattler and twice as quick."

[Innocent]

LOL, "twice as quick" before or after the rattler has eaten?
I know that there are a lot that think great things of Greg Conner, and I am and have always treated him with respect even when I had to certified send a letter to Charlton Heston in order to get a national trophy a year after I won it. In fact I enjoy talking with Greg, I just feel that he is a poor manager and incidents like this protest at the start of the match ( he had to know it was coming if you look at all the letters written by shooters to the NRA and to silhouette committee) could have been avoided if handled properly. The last relay snafu could have happened (and has happened) to any range officer at a any match, how it is handled is a whole 'nother story. Obviously there was issue with regard to the interpretation of the rules to have the shooters handle the mis-call their own way. From the behind the scenes reports that I got on it, it happened to some very experienced shooters, each handling the way they felt the rules read, while I doubt anyone of the shooters involved have any hard feelings towards the others, I can assure you there is bitterness in their opinions of the managment of it. I have heard it from some involved in the protest and been there and seen similar situations too many times first hand.

I ask when you feel that I have been disrespectful of shooters on this forum? Yes, I disagree with some, and yes I do speak my opinion, but at no time do I think I have been disrespectful of anothers opinion.

Mary

[lijeboy]

Mary:

You wrote: "Incidents like this protest at the start of the match ( he had to know it was coming if you look at all the letters written by shooters to the NRA and to silhouette committee) could have been avoided if handled properly" ...

You obviously have access to information that I do not. I only know as a competitor who was there waiting the hour and a half for the match to start, it was very frustrating. It could have been avoided if it had been resolved prior to the match also, in my opinion. I don't know all the nuances of the rules so perhaps it was unavoidable. I am not laying blame on Mr. Conner, nor the competitor who chose to file the protest last minute.

I repeat a prior post of mine that it would be beneficial to all involved if protests of this sort were resolved prior to a match starting to avoid 130 people having to hang around treading water waiting for something to happen.

And I wasn't suggesting you are disrespectful, just didn't want to head off in that direction.

[glen ring]

Thanks Bob. I'll try several places on the books. They look like what I need. I've been a pistol and shotgun shooter most of my life and rifle shooting, outside of hunting, is a relatively new sport for me. Thanks.....This kind of courteous and kind response is exactly what this forum was intended to provide to shooters exchanging information and seeing what the sport is all about. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to help.

[Innocent]

In the interest of determinng a way to handle this situation politely...the following comes to mind:
There are numerous posts including copies of letters sent to the NRA competitions and silhouette committee about the 'change' in ruling on the fiber optic sights. Greg was even quoted as saying, that "individual match directors can allow them in states or regional matches" but 'he' would not allow them at the nationals.
So until the match has started and Greg's preamble about the rules (usually given just before the national anthem) how does a shooter know what he is going to "apply". And when does the shooter file a protest? It can not be filed until the rule is announced or 'enforced'. When do you deal with a protest (having been on many pre-match picked juries, I can truly say that this is a judgement call on the part of the match director)?
Granted before any firing is done with or without the use of sights is one that I certainly would have called for a decision on before firing the first shot. Yes, having 130 people hanging around waiting to shoot is a bit of a mess, and I'm sure it annoyed many who have good eyesight and were ready to shoot.
I might add that the person that I believe filed this protest actually has pretty good eyesight. And what I know about him, he filed on behalf of those that did not attend because they did not wish to spend the money to travel and not be allowed to shoot because of a ruling that is inconsistant across the country. I'm sure he was not exceptionally popular with a few, but those that know him understand his stance and willingness to speak out in his own way.

I am very open to a solution as to how and when to deal with protests. As for rules that limit many shooters due to less than good vision, I am not in favor of that. I am strongly infavor of all in wheel chairs shooting. THere are rules that prohibit a wheel chair bound shooter from holding national records, but they do allow and even encourage them to come out and enjoy the sport. My hats go off to those bound by handicaps/challenges and I find their experiences in life very valuable and rewarding to listen to. We should do all we can to encourage all ages and phycially challenged people to enjoy this sport. I respectfully point back to Lanny Bassham and his story of how and why he became a shooter and not a football/baseball player.

[lijeboy]

Mary:

What's SNOSS?

[glen ring]

Lijeboy

The load I used on Chicks and Turks was a light cast bullet with a light load of Trail Boss. I'll PM the load info to you. I'm glad you're on Steel Chickens. There are several good shooters that post here and the one really like to follow the advice of is Lone Ringer . He has a ton of experience and is a gentleman. Most of us have some experience, good or bad, and will gladly help . I've received and continue to receive so much good information from this site. As you can tell, everyone has their own opinion about things and that's great. I've found a friend or foe feature on here and I won't ever see the stuff that i don't want to see!!!! You can fine tune to your favorite guys/gals and tune out your not so favorite ones. Such a great information source about such a great sport. PM me if you have any trouble .
Glen