.357 Load

[TheBugFather]

Thanks for the info Joe.

Dennis

[375Short]

Dennis,

I have shot The Cast Bullet Shops bullets four years now. Between Elaine and I we have put 1000 + of his gas check 200’s down range cast from his MA alloy. I have shot through an entire Western National CLA Match with no cleaning and no lead when I did. Plenty of heavy black fouling from my 5744 loads though. I have them sized .359 which seems a happy diameter in our Uberti barrels. I’m not a very knowledgeable cast bullet person and Tony has been very helpful and patient talk me through my ignorance. If you do place an order typically you go on a list and your bullets get cast when your name comes up. Best to plan ahead. I order about now for what I want in the spring. Tell him you started this current trend and we stole the whole idea from you. He has been pleasantly surprised to learn his bullets are performing well at 200 yards from lever action rifles. I’ll give VV 3n38 a try.

[edgehit]

6.5 gr is a good starting point

[TheBugFather]

My current load data shows 7.2 grain of VV 3N38 behind a Matt's 205 grain bullet, so a subsonic load.

I like to use Remington 6 1/2 primers, they usually give me single digit or very low two digit SD's

Never tried supersonic, but maybe one day.

Also a new favorite powder is IMR-4227, better than I remember from 20 years ago, cuts very clean in my Redding powder measures.

Works great in my 44-40, sad I'm selling both for my rifles soon, trying to raise money and cut down on my shooting gear.

I just recommended to a friend to also try the Sierra 180gr FPJ bullets, he was having trouble with some rams in Florida and didn't want to hassle with the difficult seating of the 200 gr 35 Remington bullets or buying a new 30-30 rifle. The 180 FPJ bullets were made specifically for the handgun silhouette version of our sport for the rams. Of course supersonic for these, but less recoil than a 30-30 for sure.

As always, be careful with any reloading data some yahoo, like me, starts telling people on the net.

Dennis Ostler

[c4p6t7r188]

Why don't people seem to favor a sub PC load for .357mag out to 100m?

My original load of 6gr titegroup with 125gr XTP bullet gave me a velocity of 1353 FPS and putting that in a random online calculator it does or has a chance to go transonic when it reaches rams. I figure why risk that even if they still hit and knock down the target?

In the next couple of months I plan on doing 5gr Titegroup with a 158gr XTP bullet, I was getting 1030 FPS with a very nice grouping.
4.8gr of Titegroup gave me roughly 950 FPS and another nice group. Both are using pistol magnum primers. 24" barrel.

I am getting 30 for standard deviation which is high...( but do you think it's an issue if only out to 100m) I'm going to be trimming my brass and try to make sure things are as uniform as possible, but I wonder if this is part due to the large case and small amount of powder? I also got a separate crimp die despite having trouble noticing a crimp on a case... Should I angle my rifle up and slowly lower to think the powder will be at the back of the case? Some things I plan on adjusting in the next couple of months.


Am I wasting my time? Am I making things way more complicated then it needs to be for a simple PC match? I don't know why I'm so stuck on Titegroup, I just want to choose something and not have to second guess things in general. I go with the XTP bullets because in my mind having a jacketed bullet helps with the momentum energy?

[PAndy]

100m pigs are heavy and have big feet. They can be a little sticky on the rails in wet weather. I knocked over a lot of them with 1100 fps 180 gr cast bullets in 357. I think this load would also take turkeys just fine, but for some reason a case full of 4198 behind the same 180 was more accurate in my rifle so I shot that at 150m (supersonic but mild) and fertilized the grass with unburned powder kernels.

I believe subsonic 200 gr loads would ring some 200m rams on our ranges in Pennsylvania. But that doesn't mean it would necessarily be a mistake to use a load like that. Just depends on what's the most fun and what you want to play with! See what works where you shoot.

[c4p6t7r188]

After typing it all out I really think having a powder to fill the 357 case is what will lead to a good standard deviation, otherwise it would be better to use the smaller .38spl case for PC if going for subs.

Titegroup isn't suppose to be case sensitive, so that's why I will retry in a couple months, but I will also try shuffling the powder to the back during shouldering? I'm just typing and thinking.

[PAndy]

With mild loads for pistol cartridge, I don't think you will see much problem with the fast burning powders such as tite group or bullseye or n320 in the bigger cases. For me, I test loads at 100 yds and choose based on accuracy. I don't pay attention to the velocity deviations, but I test promising loads multiple times with 10 shot groups for confidence.

[c4p6t7r188]

With mild loads for pistol cartridge, I don't think you will see much problem with the fast burning powders such as tite group or bullseye or n320 in the bigger cases. For me, I test loads at 100 yds and choose based on accuracy. I don't pay attention to the velocity deviations, but I test promising loads multiple times with 10 shot groups for confidence.

Thank you, I will do the same as I can finally test out to 100m!

[375Short]

You’re not making things overly complicated. Getting a load you’re happy with often is a long process. Perhaps never ending for many of us. I think you’re on a good path focusing on sub sonic. But it is often harder to find a 100y accurate subsonic load than it is a full power load. If your loads consistently shoot well at 100 I wouldn’t worry too much with an ES of 30. That said I would be just like you trying to keep my accuracy and lower the ES. It seems for a host of reasons PC is the hardest of the three to find a point of satisfaction with loads. Tipping the barrel up before each shot may lower your ES but is it how you want to be obligated to shoot the match? In my load development I grab the ammo from the box or laying on its side on the bench, shove it in the gate, work the lever and fire. It suits me better to stay at the load development process until the load performs under the same condition I use it in the match. A few ranges these days get ugly if you point the muzzle up as homes creep ever closer to the range property. Good luck, it will come together. When it does, some time later, you will think I wonder if….. and it starts all over again.

[TheBugFather]

My current experiment is with a 105gr hollow base Bear Creek 357 mag load for 100 meter PC mouse fart loads. So so luck with 4.4 gr trail boss powder, SD of 26, but much better luck with 4.0 gr Tightgroup, SD of 9, and my favorite Rem 6 1/2 primers. Very position insensitive but God is that a small powder charge!

Scares the hell out of me, doing around 1,157fps out of a 24" Rossi (Heritage). The rifle will probably take an accidental double charge but that poor bullet will go a screaming 2,300+ fps out of the barrel like in the cartoons.

Most 357's don't like the light bullets, Winchester has a 1-19 twist (better), Marlin has a 1-16 twist (worst) but the Rossi's have a strange 1-30 twist (best). Good for light bullets, bad for heavy bullets. I plan on a lighter charge to get subsonic and maybe a lighter primer. I might try the Trail Boss load again with a different primer or try a load of VV N310 or N320, that take up twice the room of the Tightgroup powder. 700x was more position sensitive. 14.5 grains of N320 fills a 357 mag case, 20.0 grains of Tightgroup fills a 357 mag case. 6.0 grains of Trailboss fills a 357 mag case.

I just love this stuff, just wish I had more time to do it.

I do best with my 22LR Marlin 39a, as I can spot my own hits through the front sight, better follow through.

Trying to do the same with my PC rifle, as 22 mag just doesn't always cut it with ram knockdown power.

Ideal for me would probably be a 24" 32 H&R Mag rifle, that doesn't exist or a a 60-75gr 25-20 rifle that is too hard to find brass for and brass is too fragile to work with. I had a 32-20, just not the same.

Cheap, Lazy and always Tired, Dennis Ostler