What is wrong with this plan?

[Jim Beckley]

Flint, Two things, first before you put something together to shoot, I would go to a match and see what everyone else is using, and I'm sure there will be someone if not everyone who will let you shoot their gun to try it out. If you put a gun together and decide you want to move on to something else, and want to sell it, I don't see too many other people shooting a Weatherby!

The second thing is the 6BR. Imagine when you were a kid the night before Christmas with the visions of a room full of toys the next day, maybe even a pony that you ask Santa for! Well the next day comes and there is just a sack of marbles under the tree. On the other hand if you know going into the game that the bullet/case combo is marginal at best and your happy with it, have at it. Mallinois, I have heard quite a few people who were shooting 6BR's say that they would take 30 going into rams, but as of the 30th of July 2009, I've yet to see it!

[malinois]

A 30 going into rams with 10 shots to go...would be nice but I have only done that with smallbore. But losing an animal is tough with any rig...it sure can put a damper on the party. So i'm retiring the 6br for a bit larger caliber, it was fun while it was working.

[Jerry G]

My 100 gr BT bullets with a MV of 2800fps+ only took down about 1/2 of the rams. I had to get a new bbl on so I went with a 7 twist and I shoot the 107s with a MV of 3000fps at the rams only. So far everyone I have hit has gone down. It has a Mutum of 35.1 lb-ft/sec and an Energy of 1181 ft-lb.

The rest of the animals do go down with 80gr reloads. They arn't a problem.

[BlauBear]

Jerry, are the Rams finicky about where you hit them? It's hard to imagine many of us can call 500 meter shots too closely, but breaking in a preferred quadrant is possible.

[Jim Beckley]

Most of the guys around here that are still shooting a 6BR, have had Bob Brackney put it together for them and off the bench the ones that I've seen shoot will put 5 shots into a group the size of your fist at rams, they are indeed accurate, but it was a sad day at the range a few months ago when Alan Kirsch hit 10 rams, but rang one. Rams was all he needed for his HP Grand Slam. It could have happened with any caliber, but I would have liked the odds with a bigger bullet dia. Just my two cents!

[BlauBear]

So much of this game is about stacking the odds. We obsess about gear and most of us shoot rifles that are far better than we are just so lost targets are our fault, not the gear.

[Bob259]

So much of this game is about stacking the odds. We obsess about gear and most of us shoot rifles that are far better than we are just so lost targets are our fault, not the gear.

It's the rifle damit....
no it's the conditions...
no its the......

BB, You need to blame something other then yourself.. our you never get new 'bling'

[BlauBear]

Damn 504... No, wait, no 504's in high power? Fortunately, I keep my excuses numbered on the back of the spotting board...

[flint]

Thank you Gentlemen for participating in this very helpful for me, a dead born rookie, discussion.

You thoughts, suggestions and very good points made a lot of sense.

Nevertheless, you know how stubborn some of us are, learning only from our own mistakes ;)...

Anyway, I decided, what a heck, what am I losing? And took my 6BR rig to the range.
By the time I finished with the load development for some new powder I was testing,
I had 13 rounds spared for Rams.
I rose 21 animals (there was one extra rusty bastard ), and started shooting.
Of course it was off of bipod. First, to exclude the lack of the skills you guys possess,
and secondly, that heavy barreled gun is not for off hand shooting at all.
But it is not the point here. The point is if 6BR can take them down. Am I right?
I wasted 2 rounds until I got the right come ups and after that I made 11 shots.
10 animals fell, and that rusty devil was kinda shaky for a moment but stood.
The rest of the herd has been cleaned up from another iron, Rem 700 LTR in 308.
Anyhow, these are my odds. 10 of 11.

The bullet was Lapua Scenar, 105 grain with muzzle velocity about 2900fps.
I was aiming the center of the animal, somewhere 3" above his belly line.
Maybe I'm just lucky at my home range because of the 3000 feet above
the see level and the animals are lighter there.
And I'm kinda guessing the 11th was just too smart
because the noble European Lapua bullet didn't like the look of that rust.

[malinois]

It all about having fun.....did you have fun killing those criters...Well then you have accomplished your mission.

[RBriscoe]

flint,

There are several assumptions you make which, I believe, are not necessarily correct.

Number one is shooting a 260 Rem with 107 gr bullets at the rams. I think rather few people do this intentionally. I suspect they have occasionally slipped the wrong load in for rams...they hit about a minute high. Oops! I did it. It can be done, but is not ideal.

Number two is the idea of rechambering what is apparently a factory 243 Win barrel to 6mm BR. The odds of successfully doing this are not good. If you want to use the barrel, just shoot it as a 243...it won't last that long and you will get a good idea of just how many rams will be lost.

Unless you are shooting at a range where the rams fall over simply because they got hit, you will likely lose at least half of your hits. (I had lengthy discussions about shooting a 6mm BR due to concerns over handling recoil when I returned to shooting.)

At many ranges, the question is whether a 6.5mm with heavy bullets is adequate.

One shooter at our range who is limited as to the recoil he can tolerate shoots a long throated 7mm BR. For rams he shoots a load he can handle and just accepts the result. He has had remarkable success using loads with very modest recoil.

In my experience, the 6.5mm Sierra 142 gr MK has a fairly narrow velocity window it will tolerate. With anything much over 2,750 fps muzzle velocity you are likely to experience "bullet blowup" on the ram. It leaves a large, paintball-like splotch which you can easily see because the ram is still standing. Some people are shooting the 142 MK at around 2,650 fps with generally good results. There are undoubtedly people shooting it below this velocity who will tell you that they have had good luck with it at the ranges they use, but I would expect these combinations to have some difficulties if the wind is behind the rams or something else is "not right". The Sierra MK is a fine bullet that will shoot extremely well. There are simply limitations to its use on steel.

I agree with the suggestion to go to a few matches, take a look at equipment, ask questions and see if you can shoot some of the rifles to get an idea what they feel like in actual use, both as to recoil and the stock configuration, balance and so on. Most people will be happy to let you try their rig.

Good luck,

Rick

[flint]

Thanks Rick for your detailed reply.
Greatly appreciated.

I'm still in the process of making my decision.

You might find it stupid but years ago I developed a "policy" for myself, which I'm trying to obey.
It has 2 paragraphs.
1. I'm allowed to have as many guns as my gun cabinet can comfortably take without getting overcrowded.
2. The second gun cabinet is not an option. ;)

And now every time when my brain is brewing something new, I must kick out one of the current gun cabinet "tenants".
Brutal, but I would never stop collecting them otherwise.
So one of my varmint rigs in 223 Rem is in the process of changing the owner and until then I have time to make up my mind.

Thank you Gentlemen for taking time to educate a rookie. ;)

[flint]

I continued my experiments trying to marginalize what 6mm bullet could take the rams down...
Berger VLD, 95 grain at approximately 3000 fps...
10 shots in the middle of the body - 10 down...

[stsbuyer]

I continued my experiments trying to marginalize what 6mm bullet could take the rams down...
Berger VLD, 95 grain at approximately 3000 fps...
10 shots in the middle of the body - 10 down...

When you make another trip to the range try shooting some rams in different spots besides the center. Shoot a couple of inches behind the front leg 2-3" up in the body, I think you will see that you will have ringers there. Off the bench shooting center of the animal will not tell you what will happen when your shot is not a center punch. But I am a firm believer is shooting what you have, you can always rebarrel later.

Good luck,

[Innocent]

I usually remain silent on this type of discussion but I can't help but agree with "the try different rilfes/calibers before you build" . This makes even more sense if you intend to continue following your own rule of no more than the safe can hold motto.
BTW welcome to SC and all the opinions of the fine family of silhouette shooters, I look forward to seeing you at a match sometime.


Innocent Mary