Fiber Optic Sights- Offical Word?

[JohnHenry]

I also called Greg Connors yesterday about the fiber optic front sights and the cheek pieces on the buttstock.

As has been previously stated, Greg said fiber optic sights would not be allowed. He did say that when the committee approached him with this ruling, he suggested they allow the fiber optic sight as long as it did not protrude beyond the hood of the sight. The committee did not like that and went back to the original wording that the sight has to be either a post or bead.

Regarding the cheek pieces, Greg said that a piece of mole skin would be permissible, but anything thicker would be turned down.

Isn't this peculiar? Last summer at the Nationals the competitors meeting was as benign an affair as any I've attended. Nothing was mentioned about the sights and cheek pieces. I asked Greg about this. He said the matter was brought to the committee in the fall because someone complained. I think it was one of the board members. Greg said since there was a complaint, they had to address it. I understand the vote was 5 to 2 in favor of the ruling.

The committee is supposed to represent the shooters. In this case, I think they represented their opinion.
The 2011 competitors meeting will probably be a lively affair. Plan to attend if you are going to match. I will be there.

Jim Luke

[RBriscoe]

Jim,

The word that comes to mind is perverse.

Perhaps there should be a mutiny and no one go to nationals in protest of the way this was done.

Rick

[PhxShooter]

What do they think the definition of a "bead" is? If you put a piece of fiber optic rod on top of a blade site and look at it as you do when sighting on a target it is nothing but a bead!! They seem to think it has some magical powers that eliminates all the other requirements for hitting the target. Little things like proper breathing, sight alignment, trigger control and follow-through are still required. Since the wording that came with the new score books said they are keeping the same rules as before, and the fiber optic bead sights were allowed before AND there are no rule changes, other than for safety, allowed till 2012 how the h%&@ can the committee disallow fiber optic sights for the 2011 Nationals?

Just so I've got this straight the NRA has said so far:

1. NO fiber optics allowed in 2011 or at least leave it up to the individual match directors but none at the Nationals.
2. Commercially produced fiber optics will be allowed.
3. There are no rule changes so all will be allowed as long as they meet the post or bead rule.
4. There are no rule changes but they won't be allowed at the 2011 Nationals (but apparently OK every where else)
5. There are no rule changes but fiber optic sights (that have been allowed for several years) will no longer be allowed anywhere. But remember there are no rule changes!

Sure glad we got that straightened out (for now).

Rick I like your idea. Sounds like it's time to let them know that they work for us and not us for them but then again it appears that they don't care as many others have said. I think it's time for a boycott.

[cslcAl]

Ok; I couldn't take it any more and I too called Greg today. Here is what I got from the conversation. There are no rule changes allowed for 2011; so the wording in the rule stands as written. However the position the committee has taken is that because the rule does not contain language including fiber optic sights they are saying they can not be used. This would not only include the Nationals, but any other sanctioned matches as well.
Here is what you need to do. 1- Go to the nationals and attend the competitors meeting. Insist that a vote be taken for or against fiber optic sights. 2- Write a letter to the committe expressing your views. That is how it came to a head this year. Greg told me they got about 20 letters against fiber sights.
I am not going to get too excited about shooters using them at our range. We shoot white targets anyway and there is not any advantage in using them on white targets. I do suppose though if someone complains about anyone using them, I will have to deal with it.
Ain't it great to be a match director?????

Al Foust

[boats]

Guys I don't have a dog in this fight, Having tried Fiber front sights on my S&W 625's in IDPA found no advantage, would not put a F/O on my lever gun. However seems to me sight picture is a key factor in CLA and if somebody figures out a better way it gives them an advantage.

If you go down that path whats the next step, I can shoot apertures much better than post, BPCS were the critters are visually smaller than CLA Aperture is all I use, post would cost me hits for sure. If I re barreled my 1954 39A it would shoot groups with pure target rifles and better than factory stock Marlins. If I could alter the stock with a higher comb I could shoot head erect and better scores would result.

Let me give you an example to think about. Go back to Smallbore Silhouette 10 or 15 years ago when Hunter Class rifles were factory stock. I was at the nationals when the committee met and was pressured to allow re barreling as long as the barrel was tapered, and up the weight limit too. Guys that complained the loudest got the rule changed. Ordinary shooters did not know the change movement was even going on. That was pre internet and a few could influence things by attending the nationals and comming to the meetings. Now a factory stock Hunter class gun, popular priced that is not a 1500 dollar Anschutz, can't shoot with the built to spec match Hunter class guns. This change was approved even though Smallbore has a class for Silhouette rifles that allow any changes or build somebody could ever want. The average shooters Factory gun was made obsolete in one rule change. I am match director for Smallbore at our club and see new shooters all the time with a Remington Ruger or something moderately priced looking at the Anschutz Kimbers and custom builds the good shooters are using. Not to mention the high dollar match scopes required. It keeps them away from the sport for certain. Point is equipment changes are a slippery slope and can come back to haunt you long term.

If you feel strongly about it start writing the Silhouette committee. They make the decisions not NRA staff.

Boats

[JohnHenry]

I keep hearing comparisons between cowboy silhouette and smallbore & high power silhouette. It seems with the latter the changes were radical. I've never shot either of those games. But I think the use of fiber optic sights is a much smaller change than anything proposed or adopted in small bore silhouette. Let's face it, shooters have gone to fiber optic sights so they can see the sights against the black targets. I've heard the average age of the cowboy shooters is 60+. It's no wonder they are gravitating to the glow sights. I don't use one myself, but it certainly doesn't offend me if someone does. I do not feel over matched with equipment. As has been stated earlier, there is a lot more to shooting than just seeing the sights, although it is crucial to a good shot.

My biggest gripe is that the NRA didn't put this matter to a vote of the shooters at the Nationals last summer. It is our game. Let the majority vote rule.

Jim Luke

[ppkny]

I'm sure bob259 will be happy to know I removed my "Neon" battery operated ?? fiber otpics sights form all three of my guns. This is as about as ridiculous as it gets. Can't anyone at the NRA on the Silhouette committee just stand up say yes or no (except Greg) . It's not a trick question. Fiber Optics YES.... Fiber Optics NO.
I'm not going to let this isuue effect my shooting or be challenged for a rules violation this year. I just want to shoot. Moving On...ppkny

[Bob259]

I'm sure bob259 will be happy to know I removed my "Neon" battery operated ?? fiber otpics sights form all three of my guns. This is as about as ridiculous as it gets. Can't anyone at the NRA on the Silhouette committee just stand up say yes or no (except Greg) . It's not a trick question. Fiber Optics YES.... Fiber Optics NO.
I'm not going to let this isuue effect my shooting or be challenged for a rules violation this year. I just want to shoot. Moving On...ppkny

Well I for one was ready to protest your 'neon battery operated' sights Now that you have taken that fun away I guess we'll just have to see you struggle with the rest of us

I wrote to the NRA.. yet again, but I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears they seem hell bent on screwing up this sport with not being able to make a decision in a timely manner.

[RBriscoe]

Did anyone download a copy of the rule which listed fiber optic sights before the no rule change "interpretation" resulted in the published rule omitting the words "fiber optic sight"?

[boats]

Latest print copy of the rule book is revised March 2008, after this editon NRA Has gone to notices to Match Directors to be pasted into the March 08 hard copy. I don't keep up with them for my Smallbore match so could have been some verbiage on F/O's that I missed. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Rule 3.1.3 Part 1 "Front sights must be a post or bead, may be hooded or if interchangable may use post inserts only"

I shot our state CLA Smallbore and Pistol Caliber last spring, my first CLA match. The MD checked to see if we were using post. Until this thread came up never saw a lever action with a F/O

Boats

[stsbuyer]

Well I was just about to invest in three set of fiber optic sights for my lever gun. I am done with CLA, will just move all three to the back of the safe. Any changes to smallbore or high power rules and I will do the same. May be time to find something else to do.

[Bob259]

Well I was just about to invest in three set of fiber optic sights for my lever gun. I am done with CLA, will just move all three to the back of the safe. Any changes to smallbore or high power rules and I will do the same. May be time to find something else to do.

Paul, it’s frustrating I know, as I had just got one mounted on mine and got a couple more of the Williams ones to try on the others. But don’t quit the sport altogether. Unfortunately I don’t think the NRA (at least the Silhouette group) really cares one way or the other what the shooters do. Like Politicians and bad stores they only way to get them to care is in the pocket book, that said the local matches help our local clubs to keep going and not the NRA so I’ll be and I hope you’ll still be shooting there, but as for the Nationals, it would be awful funny if no one showed up in protest for a few years. I bet then they would listen to the shooters then because they make a bunch of money on the entry fees they are charging us.

You need to get Evelio and take a road trip with a good bottle of your favorite beverage and forget about this crap

[RBriscoe]

Paul,

I had the same feeling after having acquired a set of lever guns last year and now needing sights.

I think I am going to fix up the .22 and sit back and see how I feel about it after a bit. What is it with these characters?

Rick

[stsbuyer]

Rick,

Remember the early 80 when we had light rifle instead of hunter. Anschutz came out with a 64 light rifle, bought one at the Nationals in Fort Worth. Next year we had hunting rifle and the weight limit was
8-1/12LB's, so I had a 7-1/2 lb gun that could only be used as a standard rifle. I miss out on the chin gun rules during the time I shot pistol silhouette. At this point like I said if they change smallbore or the high power rule I am done.

[PhxShooter]

If the NRA follows through with the no fiber optics rule at the Nationals I'll guess they lose at least 50% of the shooters. 25% because they have fiber optics and are pi$$ed and 25% just because they're fed up with the NRA blindly changing things just because they can. EVERY Lever Gun I own has a fiber optic front sight and they won't be going to the Nationals with out the fiber optics. Sad.

Anybody got a list of the members of the silhouette committee and a way to contact them? E-mail addresses would be great. I'm going to guess that some of them, since they don't actually shoot and all but two certainly don't shoot lever action silhouette, don't know the hornet's nest they stirred up. Those are the folks that decided to change the rules and while they're not paid NRA employees they are still the NRA representatives when it comes to this issue. As an FYI, the two votes that were cast to not mess with the fiber optic sights came from the two lever action shooters!!