The hard pill to swallow is the military style AR-15 rifle has become the rifle of choice for todays shooters, M1A's and M14's were never that popular with civilians but the bolt guns and clones from WW1 andWW2 took the civilian market by storm after those wars. I can imagine there were lots of folks back in those days that lamented the waning popularity of the win 94's and 95's being overshadowed by Springfields and Enfield. Such is the way of the world, it's called progress weather or not it really is which is totally subjective to ones opinion.

I bought my first AR in 1989 and was one of the few people I knew that had one, now many small gunshops carry them exclusively, they are everywhere.

If you wanted to save the silhouette game create a game specifically geared towards the AR guys.

Hotrodrockets wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:12 pm I'm only there for comic relief and the TACOS!

I like tacos! Yummy!

kevinbear wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:51 pmIf you wanted to save the silhouette game create a game specifically geared towards the AR guys.

Silhouette is too boring for those guys. They want the run-and-gun, Afghanistan firefight, operator fantasy camp stuff.

Tacos!!! Is it Tuesday already!
Al, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The run and gun fantasy shooters will draw the attention of the video gamers. Standing and hitting a target isn't "sexy" enough for them. Its a sad but true fact.

Interestingly while the AR is very popular and ditto for 'running and gunning' games, I will point out the F-Class and PRS (practical rifle system) are extremely popular and bolt guns prevail. In fact PRS events fill up months in advance and they have thousands of dollars of prizes. In f-class the bolt gun prevails with new guys using their varmint rifles initially. I want every hunter to play our game, to whip out his deer rifle and come out...I don't want them turned away by the prospect of highly specialized competition. Once that shooter knocks down a few targets (like the ram) they'll be back....but we need a division friendlier to that 'hunter' ...that shooter will migrate to the open division.


BTW...notice that Leupold stopped making silhouette scopes, the 54 Anschutz silhouette rifle is history, ditto for the Walther kk/ms, the Remington Varminter, the Savage 112 silhouette rifles are gone....and check out the dismal merchandise awards at most silhouette regional and national competitions.

acorneau wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:47 am

kevinbear wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:51 pmIf you wanted to save the silhouette game create a game specifically geared towards the AR guys.

Silhouette is too boring for those guys. They want the run-and-gun, Afghanistan firefight, operator fantasy camp stuff.

Your probably right about this, the club I belong to has huge percentage of AR guys yet almost none of them shoot the traditional military highpower matches, the 3-gun competitions are like a zoo though, can't find a parking spot.

We all love the game but may be witnessing it's final years, I've always wondered if the reason many folks from the coasts don' t go to Raton is because they dislike the heat and wind so prevalent there, if you live out here it doesn't bother you.

The weather uo east (e.g. Pennsylvania) isn't exactly balmy....it gets plenty hot and humid. Consider this: our club hosts a hybrid PRS match euphemistically called a 'Know Your Limits' match where one shoots a variety of targets usually metal like coyotes prairie dogs etc at various distances from behind simulated fences, ramps ( like a roof!---) and you shoot what you bring. Now with 1400 members and lots of AR owners you'd expect the AR would be the gun of the field. But in fact its the hunting bolt gun with people that never graced other competitions and its always packed. And yes there is even a standing stage. So go figure....but observation suggests that the common hunting rifle without a target scope will be used in competition versus purpose built arms. What seems to help is that various 'instructors' are there to guide the tenderfoot. Just a little food for thought.
If you go to youtube and search 'benchrest silhouette' you will be amazed at the busy matches with entrants shooting little metal crows, coyotes, squirrels, and even mice from the bench'''''aaargh!

kevinbear wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:06 am We all love the game but may be witnessing it's final years,

I better sell my 1712 and take up Lever Action Silhouette.

Are we limited to tacos? I was looking forward to enchiladas. Tamales are good too.

Bill Motl didn't grow any jalapenos this year. It's gonna be a lean year down here.......

I had chicken enchiladas last night smothered with green chile and a side of sour cream. The only thing missing was blue corn tortillas.

do they use blue corn to make them or are they dyed? Can you taste a difference?

DavidABQ wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:59 pm I had chicken enchiladas last night smothered with green chile and a side of sour cream. The only thing missing was blue corn tortillas.

Your pissing me off now, Gary and I are expecting you show up with some authentic NM green chile btw.

psteiger wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:49 pm do they use blue corn to make them or are they dyed? Can you taste a difference?

I have never been able to tell but I have always assumed they used blue corn.

kevinbear wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:52 pm

DavidABQ wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:59 pm I had chicken enchiladas last night smothered with green chile and a side of sour cream. The only thing missing was blue corn tortillas.

Your pissing me off now, Gary and I are expecting you show up with some authentic NM green chile btw.

I will put that on my list!

Bob,

Can you please explain how modifying the rules to require everyone to buy two rifles and two scopes is more appealing to a new shooter than rules that allow everyone to compete with one rifle and one scope? If the thought of having to build a rifle to compete "intimidates" new shooters I don't understand how having to build a rifle for standard class then having to buy an additional rifle and scope for Hunter makes this better.

If the thought is that the rule should be changed because of the initial impression that people might get from seeing custom-built guns then I think we should consider a couple of things:

1. What percentage of new shooters are actually intimidated by these rifles? I know as many prospective shooters that are interested in the game for the opportunity to build cool new rifles as I do those who might shy away from the cost of a custom rifle. Not everyone is scared to put money into a rifle.

2. Does it make sense to force everyone that already shoots to go out and buy new hunter rifles and new 12-power scopes just because of the possibility of drawing in a few new shooters that might be intimidated by the custom guns? Not only that, but then everyone that doesn't quit is going to want to build a new standard gun as well. If I have to shoot some off-the-shelf rifle with a 12x scope in Hunter, I want every advantage I can get on my standard gun, so my current custom hunter gun is useless. I would think that we will need a lot of deer hunters to start shooting to make up for the massive loss of competitors when they get news of that gut-punch.


In my experience, competitive shooters are drawn to this game, not deer hunters . If a club wants to appeal to deer hunters, why don't they just allow people to shoot the course from a setting that replicates deer hunting? Maybe they can sit on a bucket or in an old office chair and shoot the course from a rest with a deer rifle?

Snake wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:29 am If you go to youtube and search 'benchrest silhouette' you will be amazed at the busy matches with entrants shooting little metal crows, coyotes, squirrels, and even mice from the bench'''''aaargh!

I think that this is a great way to increase participation at club matches. Why not put smaller targets out that are challenging to shoot off the bench and invite benchrest shooters and F class shooters and deer hunters to come out and shoot from a rest with the same time delays as the standing shooters. There is no reason they can't jump right into a relay and shoot on a bench next to a standing shooter. If this gets them out to the matches and they get interested in shooting standing, then great - we have gained a new shooter that might go to a championship match. If not, they are still coming to the club matches and still paying the entry fee and still having a great time and still counting towards participation. I believe that this is the best way to get new shooters to come out. (this is the suggestion that I've made to you regarding letting benchrest or F class shooters shoot the silhouette matches at 3/8 scale targets in St. Louis)

I don't see changing rules and adding rifles and adding expense as a way to draw in more shooters. I think that we need to make our matches a lot of fun for everyone, and I think that means letting people shoot whatever they bring and knock down targets from any position they like at club matches. I love the benchrest silhouette ideas but I think they need to be shot along with the traditional silhouette matches, not as separate games.

Dustin