RBriscoe wrote:Tony,

Thanks. That is in the range of what I am shooting with the 141s.

I tried a 6.5 Viking for part of a season. It is an interesting little cartridge, but I never found the right combination for my home range (it is not the easiest range in the world). I suspect that it would be "just the ticket" at many ranges. Ditto the 6.5 X. The primer pockets loosened up on ram loads with 22-250 cases. So far, the 6.5x47L case seems to tolerate reasonable loads quite well, though there is not a huge difference in the powder charges between it and my 6.5-08s.

Rick

Rick the problem with using marginal cartridges like the BR line is that we are not able to put enough powder in them to drive the bullets fast enough to knock the rams off the stands reliably. I found a good ram load for the 6.5 Viking but I will not publish it because it requires the use of Lapua brass, though primers and a bushed bolt. It's better to use other cartridges like the 6.5X47 Lapua, 6.5mm IHMSA, 260 Rem etc. and not have to bush the bolt and use special cases to get good performance at ram distance.

At the Washington state HP match this weekend, I rang four rams over the course of the six 40-shot matches. This was with the 139-grain Lapua Scenars and 36.5gr of Varget in my 260 Rem. One hit was high on the body above the shoulder. One was very high (almost off the animal) on the butt, one was low in the body just behind the shoulder, and one was absolutely dead center of the body. Only one of the animals was a known ringer, as I saw someone else using 142 MKs ring it also. While this is slightly better performance than I got from using 130-grain Normas, losing four animals over the course of 60 shots at rams (only 40 or so hits, so 10% loss) is still not acceptable. Thankfully, I don't seem to be very sensitive to recoil as the only issue I had over the course of three days and 350 shots counting sighters, practice and matches was pain from my broken left collarbone. I finished on chickens and got 10/10 with the first relay and 8/10 with the second so evidently hadn't developed any sort of flinch. With that in mind, I'm wondering what the absolute best ram bullet/load would be for a 260 Rem with no consideration of recoil. Any suggestions? I see some references to the 144 Lapua FMJ here. Is that the one? What loads would you suggest (of course starting lower and working up to it)? Is the 260 Rem limiting me? I noticed that George Kesic's 6.5x47 ram loads using the 130 Normas was taking the rams down with more authority than mine, but he also rang a couple over the course of the two days.

Jason wrote:At the Washington state HP match this weekend, I rang four rams over the course of the six 40-shot matches. This was with the 139-grain Lapua Scenars and 36.5gr of Varget in my 260 Rem. One hit was high on the body above the shoulder. One was very high (almost off the animal) on the butt, one was low in the body just behind the shoulder, and one was absolutely dead center of the body. Only one of the animals was a known ringer, as I saw someone else using 142 MKs ring it also. While this is slightly better performance than I got from using 130-grain Normas, losing four animals over the course of 60 shots at rams (only 40 or so hits, so 10% loss) is still not acceptable. Thankfully, I don't seem to be very sensitive to recoil as the only issue I had over the course of three days and 350 shots counting sighters, practice and matches was pain from my broken left collarbone. I finished on chickens and got 10/10 with the first relay and 8/10 with the second so evidently hadn't developed any sort of flinch. With that in mind, I'm wondering what the absolute best ram bullet/load would be for a 260 Rem with no consideration of recoil. Any suggestions? I see some references to the 144 Lapua FMJ here. Is that the one? What loads would you suggest (of course starting lower and working up to it)? Is the 260 Rem limiting me? I noticed that George Kesic's 6.5x47 ram loads using the 130 Normas was taking the rams down with more authority than mine, but he also rang a couple over the course of the two days.

Jason, there is nothing wrong with a 260 Rem and you can load just as hot if not hotter than the 6.5X47 Lapua. Most people I've talked to are not loading the 6.5X47 to its potential or are getting in trouble when the weather changes if their powder is weather sensitive.
My suggestion for you is to go to a different powder for rams, either R15 that a lot of the WA shooters use or H4350, start with 40 gr and load up to a max load which would be around 42 or 43 gr with the H4350 ( I have no loading data for the R15) with the right kind of brass. You can try the 144 Lapua bullets to see how you like them, some people do not think they are as accurate as other match bullets, you can also try Hornady A-Max bullets or if you do not mind paying the price for custom bullets you can order Cauterusio bullets, which may be the best 6.5 bullets made for shooting silhouettes.

Thanks, Tony. Where do I get these Cauterwhoever bullets? With as few shots at rams as there are in matches, it seems like it would be worth a premium price to not ring them as often. I don't mind switching powders. I think I probably have some H4350 around the house already.

Jason wrote:Thanks, Tony. Where do I get these Cauterwhoever bullets? With as few shots at rams as there are in matches, it seems like it would be worth a premium price to not ring them as often. I don't mind switching powders. I think I probably have some H4350 around the house already.

Jason, call him ROBERT CAUTERUCIO Phone: (650)583-1550 or Email him
[email protected]
He is very pleasant to deal with and sends the bullets right away.
You will not regret it.

Jason I'd try either Reloader 15(like Tony suggests) or Reloaded 19 with 43grain of powder behind it. I think in my limited highpower match experience I've only rung 3 or 4 out of 100 +/- rams. Thats what Marvin suggested and thats what Eric Boos is shootin and I'm thinking thats what our new national champ(Laura) in highpower is shootin also. Your a big strappin lad like myself so the recoil of 43 grains in not that noticeable. I've noticed a lot of the older shooters switching to the 6.5x47 because of the reduced recoil so it eaisier on those "old" guys, I may be wrong but that's the only advantage I see to the new cartridge over the 260. I'm think'n of tryin the reloader 15 at the start of next year to see what results i get, but like the old saying "if it aint broke, don't fix it."

Jason,

At least in my experience, Varget peaks out with the heavier bullets before I was able to achieve the velocities that were possible with H4350 or Rel 19. Be aware, however, that you will be burning more powder and pushing the bullet faster and so will have more recoil. Another powder you might want to investigate is Rel 17. I did not have enough time to fully explore loads with it, but it showed some promise of achieving good velocity with fine accuracy. When I can, I will work with it some more.

I suggest staying away from the 500 series Vihtavuori powders. They are quite temperature sensitive and can also have pressure problems on a hot day.

Bob Cauteruccio is a wonderful gentleman who makes superb bullets. They are not the cheapest bullets around, but he makes them one at a time and puts the same effort into the ones that go to each of his customers. They are not a "golden BB" for rams though.

Rick

I think a comparison photo is in order to show the relative diffrences between the projectiles we have been discussing....The MK and the cautarusio. Any body good with a band saw maybe a cut away view....How about a B.C. estimate on those projectiles if its unknown.

Oh one more thing.....am I crazy or did sierra offer at one time a 155gr MK in the 6.5 mm and if not has any one ever concider the usability of such a bullet in that weight class for the 6.5mm seems like that would bring the B.C numbers as well as the momentum numbers way up.

G'day from down under.
With regards to the 155gr SMK s. I shot a 6.5 /257ackly in high power for 7 years and never had a ram stand with the 155's. I used 48grains of our locally produced AR2213 powder, this load would group under 2 inches @ 500. They are quite a long bullet and need a good tight twist to stabilize , my Tobler barrel had a 1 in 9 twist rate . Unfortunately this powder was discontinued and I could not reproduce the same accuracy with its replacement . A shot out barrel saw me change to 7/08 in which I use the 168gr SMK's with 44.5 gr of AR2209 . This is a load that has only stood a couple of rams in the last two years . I recall the velocity of the 6.5 load was around 2550 fps and the 7/08 load is around 2450 fps. Anecdotal evidence down here is that too much velocity is not a good thing.

Taps.

P.S I recently put a 7mmTCU together for my 12 year old son which is running at about 60/40 knockdowns to ringers with the 168gr SMK,s. His best effort to date was 4/5 in one bank at the ACT state titles back in June . They all fell very slowly but surely.

The 155 gr Sierra is a very long bullet and has a very long bearing surface...which can cause pressure problems in many cartridges. A friend shot it in a long throated .260 AAR (which is the same thing as the 6.5-.257 Ackley) and it shot quite well. The problem is that it needs more velocity to stabilize than most small cases can achieve. Its popularity has waned in the long range shooting community due to the availability of higher B.C. bullets which will outperform it...such as a 142 gr MK...in the paper punching events. Basically, it needs a case approaching the case capacity of a 6.5-06 with an 8 twist barrel.

I briefly tried some Cauterucio 6.5s that were close to 150 grains in a 6.5-08 with an 8 twist barrel. By the time I got the velocity up to where they were starting to group there was more recoil than I liked.

RBriscoe wrote:The 155 gr Sierra is a very long bullet and has a very long bearing surface...which can cause pressure problems in many cartridges. A friend shot it in a long throated .260 AAR (which is the same thing as the 6.5-.257 Ackley) and it shot quite well. The problem is that it needs more velocity to stabilize than most small cases can achieve. Its popularity has waned in the long range shooting community due to the availability of higher B.C. bullets which will outperform it...such as a 142 gr MK...in the paper punching events. Basically, it needs a case approaching the case capacity of a 6.5-06 with an 8 twist barrel.

I briefly tried some Cauterucio 6.5s that were close to 150 grains in a 6.5-08 with an 8 twist barrel. By the time I got the velocity up to where they were starting to group there was more recoil than I liked.

Rick, I will be glad to take them off your hands if you have any left. I will trade you for 139, 142 or 144's. Tony

lone ringer wrote:

RBriscoe wrote:The 155 gr Sierra is a very long bullet and has a very long bearing surface...which can cause pressure problems in many cartridges. A friend shot it in a long throated .260 AAR (which is the same thing as the 6.5-.257 Ackley) and it shot quite well. The problem is that it needs more velocity to stabilize than most small cases can achieve. Its popularity has waned in the long range shooting community due to the availability of higher B.C. bullets which will outperform it...such as a 142 gr MK...in the paper punching events. Basically, it needs a case approaching the case capacity of a 6.5-06 with an 8 twist barrel.

I briefly tried some Cauterucio 6.5s that were close to 150 grains in a 6.5-08 with an 8 twist barrel. By the time I got the velocity up to where they were starting to group there was more recoil than I liked.

Rick, I will be glad to take them off your hands if you have any left. I will trade you for 139, 142 or 144's. Tony

Tony,

I am guessing you are interested in the 150 gr Cauterucios. I sold them to Robert Massey several years ago. I do not know whether he used them, traded them or whatever. I expect to see him at the Zwolle match next month and will try to remember to ask him what became of them. You might talk with Bob. I remember that he made a run of the 141gr VLDs with a slightly longer core that came out at about 144 grains. Those would be pretty interesting to try. That or he might make some 150s with a shorter (lighter) core.

Rick

RBriscoe wrote:

lone ringer wrote:

RBriscoe wrote:The 155 gr Sierra is a very long bullet and has a very long bearing surface...which can cause pressure problems in many cartridges. A friend shot it in a long throated .260 AAR (which is the same thing as the 6.5-.257 Ackley) and it shot quite well. The problem is that it needs more velocity to stabilize than most small cases can achieve. Its popularity has waned in the long range shooting community due to the availability of higher B.C. bullets which will outperform it...such as a 142 gr MK...in the paper punching events. Basically, it needs a case approaching the case capacity of a 6.5-06 with an 8 twist barrel.

I briefly tried some Cauterucio 6.5s that were close to 150 grains in a 6.5-08 with an 8 twist barrel. By the time I got the velocity up to where they were starting to group there was more recoil than I liked.

Rick, I will be glad to take them off your hands if you have any left. I will trade you for 139, 142 or 144's. Tony

Tony,

I am guessing you are interested in the 150 gr Cauterucios. I sold them to Robert Massey several years ago. I do not know whether he used them, traded them or whatever. I expect to see him at the Zwolle match next month and will try to remember to ask him what became of them. You might talk with Bob. I remember that he made a run of the 141gr VLDs with a slightly longer core that came out at about 144 grains. Those would be pretty interesting to try. That or he might make some 150s with a shorter (lighter) core.

Rick

Thank you Rick, I have bought 151 and 147 from Bob in the past.

I shot the 155 Sierra's in a 6.5x55 with a 7 or 7 1/2 twist and they shot very good. I think I used a slow burning powder like H1000 or Retumbo and the elevation change at 500 meters was similar to other 6.5 loads I use. This may be surprising, but if I recall correctly the BC is slightly lower than the 142's. I think Sierra discontinued the 155's when they brought out the 142's. I think I have 600 to 1000 of theses bullets left if someone is interested in experimenting.