Just received an email stating the Hunter Pistol Silhouette Nationals are down to only 20 competitors signed up. For those of you complaining about everything rifle, the Pistol folks use to have hundreds on the line at the nationals but due to the actions/words of many competitors this discipline is not viable at this time. Is Rifle Silhouette going to take the same path as Hunter Pistol?
We all want some changes, some of which could improve our sport while others only alter the game. It is important for rifle silhouette to continue we must recruit new shooters. Contentious words and actions will cause individuals to find another sport. Steelchickens does attract new recruits; do the verbose diatribes and actions of our shooters only show a juvenile nature attached to this sport? If I were looking for a new sport, what has been presented on this forum would have a detrimental affect on my decision to attempt rifle silhouette.
If rifle silhouette is important to you, support the match directors, line officers, committee members and the NRA. You are always welcome to make your suggestions and every club needs MORE VOLUNTEERS.
Charlie McClure

There are a lot of fine people that post on this forum who care deeply about Smallbore Rifle Silhouette. They are voicing their complaints because they were so deeply disappointed in what should have been a premier competition. Many of the people posting these disappointments are Match Directors, Line Officers, Jury Members, Rifle Inspection Officials, Shooting Range Developers and Range Safety Officers at top-notch Silhouette facilities across America. Their skills, knowledge and expertise were ignored at a critical time when they should not have been ignored. If the NRA Competition division would just listen to these active competitors the sport of Rifle Silhouette would flourish. These posters are not killing Rifle Silhouette. They are the people who are keeping Rifle Silhouette alive. Blind loyalty to an organization or a leader never repairs an organization or a leader that is starting to self-destruct.

Bobby R. Huddleston

Civil discourse is part of the American heritage.
The purpose of my thread is to question if this forum desires to promote Rifle Silhouette shooting or promote the individuals arguments, Hunter Pistol Silhouette is an example of what can happen if the competitors become fragmented groups. There is a legitimate process with the sanctioning body (NRA) to address the rules and in my opinion this forums negativity will have a harmful affect on promoting the sport, use the process for the sanctioning organization to address complaints. If there are such strong arguments against the NRA, then form another sanctioning body as the pistol silhouette shooters did

This one seems worthy of a few thoughts...

First off, is that true? Is it on the way out? I just got into hunter's pistol silhouette and I love it! I hope to shoot in a national level competition one day, and I hope they are around when I am ready to do so.

As a new silhouette shooter who just days ago became a member of this forum, it seems that some of the statements in this thread are directly relevant to my recent experiences as a new shooter, as a new member of this group and community, regarding my impressions of this forum.

I have read many of the recent posts here and have seen a lot of thoughtful comments, kind interactions, useful aid offered, and have personally already been kindly welcomed and offered much free and useful advice and many answers to my rudimentary and boring questions. So the general tone of this forum has come across to me as very friendly, accepting, even generous and kind-spirited.

I have read some of the disagreements here as well. And I can also say that if it got to a point where the disagreements made up the majority of the posts, it could become off-putting, and I would look elsewhere. However, I don't find it to be anywhere near that point. Of course, that is my personal opinion which stems from my own personality. Admittedly, I tend to welcome a healthy debate and excuse folks when their passions get up, at least to a point somewhere short of personal attacks and name-calling (which I have yet to encounter here).

So much could be said on this topic. Everyone brings a unique personality to a usergroup such as this, and some of us enjoy a more spirited engagement of ideas and opinions than others. As a member of several other similar discussion groups of various natures, both vocational and avocational, I can say that I have seen similar issues arise time and again. Some of us are put off by disagreements we see as leading to separatism or strife and others excuse them readily as healthy debates. In the end, a bit of levity seems to go a long way.

I personally believe that both sides of this argument have very valid points to make. True, angry discussion over issues leading to splitting folks into separate groups too small to effect positive change can bring about the death of an organization as quickly as can ignoring pivotal issues that merit close examination and active attempts at reform, which can lead to a slow disbanding of what could have been a unified group if only its members could have kept sight of their similarities instead of their differences. A balance need be struck, and in general I have seen that balance here in this forum.

It is also useful to note that it is perfectly acceptable to agree to disagree on a subject and leave it at that. I would argue that that skill alone and the mindfulness that everyone else has as equal a right to their opinions as we have to ours (no matter how much we might feel that we are right and they are confused, misled, or simply missing the point) is the single best way to assure a forum such as this, and a group such as silhouette shooters or the NRA maintains a healthy balance.

While active discussion of differences of opinion, or visions for the future, or ideas of correcting real or percieved problems of the current state of affairs are vital to the health of any organization, I also understand that there can come a point when it gets to sound like little more than a whole lot of complaining. As TXCharlie alludes to, a lot of great individuals in the history of our nation have spearheaded much needed reform on many levels through active debates, civil discourse, even through "civil disobedience."

As a new member of this community, my feeling is that the exchanges here seem to be generally very fair, offered with good intentions, and in no way are driving me away from this forum or the sport, for which I have really found a great passion. Quite the contrary, I feel very welcome here and thankful to have found such an accessible body of knowledge and experience to tap into as a valued resource.

I hope you all feel free to agree or disagree with me on this point without any animosity of any sort. The thing we share is a passion for silhouette shooting. All the rest should fall somewhere much farther down the level of significance of what we take from this sport, from our interactions with eachother and from our membership in the NRA.

...bet you didn't know I was a novelist.

TX CHARLIE.... I AGREE WITH YOU ON SOME POINTS. I've seen young shooters quit shooting because of the actions of older shooters at a match.

I've competed in many shooting sports with various guns and even with archery equipment ,and bad sportsmanship shouldn't be tolerated.

I'm a grey haired old guy with a lot of life experience and thick skin, but some actions/activities should not be posted on a public forum.

A few years ago I took up trap and was coached by a friend who complained about drinking at the range. Firearms and drinking don't mix.
We observed a young man ( 15 yoa) shooting his first match with a borrowed pump shotgun get scolded by a couple of "Nationally Ranked shooters" because he took his time on each shot and "broke their rhythm". We complained on both counts and no action was taken. My friend and I have both quit shooting trap.

We're not candy rears. We have a lot of life experience and are semi-retired, but won't tolerate bad sportsmanship or some beer guzzeling bubba projecting a bad image of shooters in general.

I tried shooting IMSHA a few times and noticed that there aren't many young folks and no effort to recruit or reward young shooters.

I tried bullseye shooting and quit because of a couple of crabby folks that challenged every score.

I shot IPSC and action pistol and watched a competitor and an official curse each other and challenge each other to fight. I sold my IPSC guns.

I decided to give shooting one last try and read everything I could on smallbore silhouette shooting. I purchased a Kimber Rifle and Leupold scope and practiced my rear off. I found this forum and read everything and asked a lot of probably stupid questions and received some good advice.

I read a few posts about drinking and challenging and decided that I probably would sell all my guns . I'm trying to be a mentor to my 14 year old nephew and the last thing he needed to see was a couple of drunks get into a fight at a rifle match. I posted my concerns on this forum and I received many messages from competitors inviting me to shoot at their club and to ignore the idiots that publicly brag about how much they drink and how bad their gonna beat someone.

I shot smallbore silhouette at the Old Fort Gun Club and Tulsa Red Castle gun club. Everyone was a gentleman or Lady and was very helpful and extremely friendly. No drunks wanting to fight, no loud cursing, no bad sportsmanship.

The image we need to project to our non- shooting ( for now) friends and young folk are that we're a bunch of fun loving, helpful folks from all walks of life, of all ages and income brackets and that we love to get together and have fun shooting. We need to welcome the first time shooter with a cheap .22 and 4 power scope with as much friendship and help as a national champion.

We're ( shooters and firearm owners) going to have a rough time in the next few years and a public forum posting how much whiskey consumed or challenging someone to "meet them behind the range house" is going to make us all look like drunk bubbas that shouldn't have guns.

I like to have a good ,good time after the firearms are secured and children put to bed, But a public firearm forum isn't the proper place to document these actions.


We need to police ourselves or the shooting sports will continue to decline. If bad actions and activities cause a grey haired guy like me to want to throw in the towel, a single parent trying to introduce their child to shooting will never give shooting a second chance. We all lose if that continues. The large majority of shooters are ambassadors of the sport and the bad apples should be eliminated from compitition.

Seems like NRA did a study and found that children exposed shooting after 12 are already lost to the sport. Since there's less need to hunt and less hunting land available it takes special effort to get our kids to the range, assuming one is available, so it just doesn't happen. If we don't make the effort locally we may be the last generation with widespread interest in shooting.

Personally, as a kid I found adult bad behaviour quite entertaining. Nothing like seeing a so called mature adult lose it, or falling down drunk. It made being dragged to "adult" outings almost bareable.

Today, I find many (not all) kids are pretty lazy. They don't have to do much for themselves. So called 'self esteem' is taught and given to them, not necessarily earned. There isn't much competitive enthusiasm. Computers, these mind sucking boxes rule. Heck, I know several young men that don't care about cars or aggressively chasing girls.

There are some very interesting thoughts expressed here. I for one searched this sport out to try and get my 2 boys interested in the shooting sports. No I do not have an xbox in the house and willl never have one. That in my opinion is one of the reasons shooting sports is in a decline. Why shoot at steel when you can sit in the lazy boy and hit the reset button. Anyway, When I started i did not like the low turn outs compared to other disciplines. I have learned to enjoy them as it seems there is a more laid back atmosphere and it can be a very fun day not wondering what idiot is going to make a rear of himself. I do not know if it is good for the sport but I enjoy the friendly atmosphere at our matches.

Kevin

By the way I dont believe any alcohol is allowed at any of the ranges in colorado. That is ok with me. People can enjoy adult beverages later after the match somewhere.

I

I just got back to town and up to reading this latest on the Steelchickens and felt that I needed to respond to one part of this conversation regarding the drinking that someone brought up.

1: We do have alcoholic beverages at Winnsboro Gun Club and have NEVER had a problem as the poster stated - Guns and alcohol do NOT mix. OUr club agrees 110% with that statement and that is why NO ONE will bring any firearm to the firing line if they have even smelled a drink. We do not condone shooting and drinking and have even disqualified competitors that wish to.

2: As far as drunks calling someone out at a match, I have never seen that happen and it damned sure did not happen at Winnsboro Gun Club.

Although Budweiser is one of our major sponsors, we try to run a family-type event to encourage family participation. I suggest that anyone that has not attended a match at Winnsboro Gun Club contact two individuals that can attest to the fact that we do all that we can to encourage Junior shooters - they are Bobby Huddleston aka atomicBRH and Paul Freeman.

3: All that being said, all lot of the BS on this forum regarding challenges, drinking and other nonsense is just plain BS and nonsense. WE are just trying to have fun and I personally enjoy reading some of this BS as it is extremely humorous and entertaining.

I have been shooting this sport a long time, but not as long as Charlie McClure. His post that started this thread really bears some serious thought and consideration.

I was not at NRA Nationals for purely personal reasons that most shooters know about and will not comment on how that match was run or why. It is their match and they should run it as they deem necessary. I will not attempt to tell the NRA how to run their match and it is very obvious that do not tell us how to run our match.

I am saddened to hear about the low sign up for the sil. pistol nationals. In the early 90's our club had Smallbore Hunter Pistol, Hunter Pistol, and Long Range Unlimited silhouette matches. Typically we had 12 to 16 shooters for a local match and shot all 12 months regardless of the weather. The results were published and mailed. Each fall we had a BBQ free of charge.

But for some reason we were never able to attract and keep young shooters. As a result our attendance dropped off to the point where there would only be 4 to 6 shooters including the range officials. Finally, the two fellows who ran the matches gave up. To this day I do not understand the reasons for our sport dying off.

I have seen the same thing happen to other shooting disciplines at our club. IPSC and Cowboy Action are gone and Action Pistol is on its last legs. Bullseye hangs on but only because of the old time shooters. There is only one club member shooting (and running) rifle silhouette. Attendance is usually 8 to 12 shooters for a monthly match.

The one discipline which is still going strong is IDPA. This is a game that does not require much in the way of accuracy. Speed is something that can be learned easily, but accuracy takes practice. Maybe folks are lazy.

I do not know what the solutions are, but the future of competiton shooting does concern me.

dwL, well said......It's the people that keep us coming back. I cannot tell you what a treasure these folks are to me......They have befriended me and supported me and put up with to no end. And you are right, the kids are great. Kolby, Coates, Reann, Blondie all are great shooters and have a great sense of humor.....When I was a new shooter the Masters were all gracious to me and went out of their way to be helpful.....Chris Winstead and Tony Tello did much to strengthen my resolve to pass this sport along to young folks......That's where we need to focus..

Kitty

Duckgumbo,
Welocme back man, we missed your comments.

As for seeing drunks at matches, I have shot a few matches in places that did and did not allow alcohol at the range. The only places I have seen any abuse to the point described is actually in a "dry" county at a resturant (long after the match) by a local. Can't say that the table was totally dry at the time but the mixtures were a little strong, seems as though they discovered that problem of banning booze in the 20's in the speak-easy.

I'm not a been drinker but many thanks to Budwiser and the beer wagon at Winnsoboro for a great match.

Paul Freeman runs under stsbuyer on steel chickens and he is certainly doing all he can to support any and all juniors, as does the Winnsboro gun club. I have not shot Bobby Huddlestons match but I hear good things about his encouragment also.

Mary