As part of my "getting started" package, Gary Malmberg was nice enough to let me use his Redding Competition Bushing 3-Die Neck Sizer Set and these dies are just great. I also saw the Redding Type S Match Bushing 3-Die Neck Sizer Set at Midway that's slightly cheaper. The second set there looks to be the same as the first, but with the competition bushing neck die swapped out for the S-die. From the looks of it, the S-die is just a bushing version of the standard die. For my brass prep, that would probably be fine as I'd want to neck size the same amount for all my loads. It wouldn't have the floating die inside the main die body to be quite as precise I guess. I'm not sure how much that would matter, though. The die I'm really in love with in that upper-end set is the competition seater die with the micrometer adjustment on it. That thing lets me leave the die the same and just turn the knob up top when switching between CTP and ram loads, which is much more precise than just trying to get the rougher adjustments on my other Redding seaters right by writing down positions of letters on the die or something.

Now.. after all of that, I have three questions. First, does my assessment of the differences in the dies seem accurate and the only thing I'd really miss stepping down is the micrometer adjustment on the neck sizer? Second, are there other die sets out there that are of comparable quality/functionality for the same, or even not the same, price range? Last, does anyone (especially some of you who have moved on to the 6.5x47) out there have one of these sets of dies that you want to sell?

Thanks for any info/advice you might be able to offer.

I use the micrometer bullet seater..since thats whats important. My rifles have no turn necks...now if you have a tight neck then the bushing die would work well....after you turn said necks to a uniform thickness then measure the case thickness times two and add the bullet diameter to arrive at the approximate bushing size also subtract .002 to allow for the spring back of the brass subtract .003 if you want a tighter grip on the bullet. I dont know about you but the thought of turning several hundred cases for a slight improvement in group size is just not woth it. I use the regular neck sizer. unless you uniform the neck you really are not going to benefit to much from the bushing neck sizer except that you control how much squeeze you apply to the neck.....hope this helps.

Can't have mine Jason

I love the Competition die set. I believe you can buy just that die by itself. Give Pat at Redding a call at 607-753-3331 or drop him an email at [email protected]

Jason

I bought a 260 Rem VLS in '96 when it was first brought out with the intent of shooting highpower one day. I was a reloading virgin and bought a RCBS die set which served me well for a few years until I started reading more info. on the Net and I started down the dark path of trying everything out there. I bought a RCBS X-die (worthless IMO), Redding Type S bushing neck die set with Competition bullet seater, Type S Full Length bushing die, Redding body die, and finally a Lee neck collet die set. My final setup on a 5 stage progressive press was a Lee collet die (station 1), Redding body die and prime (station 2), charge with a funnel using a RCBS Chargemaster (station 3), seat with Redding competition die (station 5). This setup produces concentric rounds with bullets set to within 0.001" using Lapua Scenars. Changing from 139s to 123s is simply a matter of adjusting the seater and powder charge; 15 sec total.

Your assessment of the Redding dies is correct. I don't think you need the floating neck die and the Competition Seater die is the way to go with VLDs and is well worth the money for ease of changing settings. I think you need to maintain casing OAL by bumping the shoulders to the same position each time so I would go with the Redding Type S Full length bushing die (match set available) on a single stage press to eliminate changing dies. If you have a progressive, or even w/o, the Lee collet dies are cheap and produce absolutely concentric brass. If you want to match your chamber and control neck tension, Hornady will make a bushing type die to match your chamber for about $150 if you send them a few well fired cases.

One thing to consider with the 260 is that most likely you will be forming brass from either 243 or 308 Lapua cases. When you go from a 243 to 260 part of the thicker shoulder ends up in the neck and this Will cause a small doughnut to form. If you size w/o the expander ball the doughnut remains on the inside and makes for inconsistent seating pressure. Size with the expander and you take your chances w/concentricity. The Lee collet die fingers close around a mandrel and eliminate the doughnut w/o using an expander ball.

Do you need a neck die if you don't neck turn? I'm not sure but it will allow you to control neck tension, but w/o consistent neck thickness there will be variance in tension around the bullet. Yea it's a pain to neck turn but it's also relatively easy and you do it once. I did 400 6.5x47 last year over the winter for a tight neck chamber. I figure those 400 will last 2-3 barrels even w/o tempering. Don’t forget that you’ll need a number of bushings on either side of the neck tension you’ll want. I use the steel bushings.

Rich

Jason,

I am not a fan of the Redding Competition Seater. It has a glaring weakness in the bullet seating stem. Even Redding warns/disclaims responsibility for damage to the die if you are using compressed loads or any other combination that requires a good bit of seating pressure. You also have to check the bullet seating stem if you are using VLD or VLDish bullets because they do not always ship the correct seating stem for these bullets. (They will send you one for VLDs on request if there is a problem.)

I like the Forster Benchrest Ultra seaters. They have a micrometer type of adjustment, are a much sturdier die and have given me good service. They also happen to cost less than the Redding Seater the last time I checked.

I do like the Redding bushing sizing dies, but then I should, I talked them into making them a number of years ago after having had some made for me by a custom die maker. The only possible drawback is that they tend to leave a very small ring at the base of the neck due to the way they make them and could result in a slightly tight fit if you are either using a tight neck cartridge or one that is simply an extremely tight fit which is not really necessary for a silhouette rifle. Some people like tight neck cartridges though. Not dragging an expander ball through the case neck also tends to reduce case stretching when sizing brass and trimming brass is not one of the things I look forward to doing. I suggest the Titanium Nitride coated bushings. With this setup you can dump your brass in a plastic bucket and hit the batch with your favorite spray case lube, shake them around a bit and get going which can save enough time to be useful.

Forster has begun making some bushing dies of their own, but I have not had occasion to try them as yet.

Rick

Jason, I use the Redding bushing dies. I started using one on my .243 and have bought one for every calibre I use now. I find it's so much easier. I also use the Redding Comp seater (no compressed loads) so I don't have any issues. Good choices.

Ciao

I forgot to tell you, "don't get reloading advice from Keith".

He still might try to crimp the necks with vise grips.......

ciao

Considering that you are only looking for accurace of under 1 minute, don't make reloading such a hassle. Get a 550b or 650 and go into production. You do need to find a powder that feeds well through a measure.

Finally getting around to making a shopping list for this particular task and need advice. I'm still using the borrowed Redding Competition Neck/Seater die set and need to give it back soon. I basically have three scenarios that I want to cover in loading for HP silhouette. The first is prepping new brass for the first firing. Next is once-fired brass that's ready for neck turning/reaming if desired. Last is twice (or more) fired brass being loaded.

For new brass, I currently:

1) Size with body die (borrowed) after lubing with Hornady OneShot case lube
2) Expand/clean up case neck with an expander die (borrowed) made to neck up 243 brass to 260 Rem.
3) Neck size with Redding micrometer Competition bushing die (borrowed) with carbide bushing (no expander)
4) Trim with Forster trimmer and chamfer with RCBS hand-held chamfer tool that came with the Rock Chucker kit
5) Clean up/uniform with Sinclair primer pocket uniformer
6) Clean up flash hole with Sinclair flash hole uniformer
7) Tumble
8) Prime with RCBS hand primer I got with Rock Chucker kit
9) Charge by dropping .1 grain less than target powder weight and trickling in the last tenth for each round
10) Seat bullet with RCBS competition micrometer seater (borrowed)

For once-fired brass, I:

1) Ream neck (not sure this is worth doing, or even useful if I'm not going to also turn them)
2) Neck size and deprime with Redding Competition bushing die (borrowed) with carbine bushing (no lube and no expander)
3) Clean up primer pocket with Sinclair primer pocket uniformer
4) Steps 7-10 above

For twice or more fired brass, I use the same as once-fired procedure but leave out the neck reaming (and turning if I start turning also in the future). If I decide to ditch neck turning/reaming in the future, then I'll only have the new brass and fired brass scenarios. I'm leaning toward this as just a matter of convenience and not having another step before the consistent state that I use for matches. As I don't like to trust new brass in matches (or even hunting) situations, I'm going to keep the "fire it once before I trust it" mindset as new brass comes with all sorts of dings and deformities that sizing doesn't always fix.

Now, the shoulder-bumping method seems like it would produce more consistent ammo but I really like the no-lube easy sizing with the bushing neck die. I understand that Redding makes a bushing shoulder bump die. Do you need to lube for bumping the shoulder back 1-2 thousandths each time? Another of the things that I like about the neck sizing only with no expander is that it doesn't work the brass much and I can get many, many firings from the brass. Is that still the case with shoulder bumping? Is there an expander die that I can buy that has mandrels (or whatever they would be called) that I can use for different calibers when prepping new brass? I'm a big fan of having the headstamp say what the brass really is, so I don't tend to actually neck brass down or up very often. I don't like to have expanders in my sizing dies, so I need something to round up/uniform the necks in new brass. I don't really want to buy a whole new expanding die for every caliber, though.

Here's my vision for a new scenarios using all my own stuff. For new brass:

1) Lube with Hornady Oneshot case lube and size with body die (need to buy)
2) Expand with expander die (need to buy) with mandrel, 6mm to 6.5mm in this case (need to buy)
3) Size with shoulder Redding non-micrometer bump/bushing neck die (need to buy). Since I will always size/bump the brass to the same length, I don't see a need for the micrometer here.
4) Trim with Forster case trimmer and chamfer with RCBS hand-held chamfer tool that I got with the Rock Chucker kit. Is there a chamfer attachment that I can add to the Forster trimmer? Using the little RCBS tool is tedious and seems less than precise.
5) Clean up/uniform with Sinclair primer pocket uniformer
6) Clean up flash hole with Sinclair flash hole uniformer
7) Tumble
8) Prime with RCBS hand primer I got with Rock Chucker kit
9) Charge by dropping .1 grain less than target powder weight and trickling in the last tenth for each round
10) Seat bullet with Forster micrometer seater (need to buy)

For previously fired brass, I:

1) Shoulder bump, neck size and deprime with non-micrometer Redding shoulder bump bushing die with carbine bushing (no lube and no expander)
3) Clean up primer pocket with Sinclair primer pocket uniformer
4) Steps 7-10 above

This gives me the following shopping list, and I now that I have 300 brass that has all been through the "new brass" procedure in the "current" section with my borrowed dies, I can separate the purchases to lessen the big hit that will register more on my wife's radar. I can start with only buying stuff necessary for the "previously fired brass" procedure in the "future" section and add the "new brass" stuff when I buy new brass.

Initial shopping list:

1) Redding non-micrometer shoulder bump neck sizing die with carbine bushing
- If I still need to lube to bump shoulders, I might as well save cash and just buy the non-carbide bushings, right?
2) Forster competition micrometer seater

Future shopping list:

1) Body die - which one is best? Does it really matter, as this is just to make sure new brass will fit in the chamber before it's fired the first time and I don't shoot new brass in matches?
2) Expander die and mandrel - is there one die that I can buy and just buy mandrels for each caliber?
3) Chamfer attachment for Forster trimmer - does such a thing even exist?
4) Neck turning hardware for Forster trimmer - worth it to turn/ream necks? Seems like I should turn if I'm going to ream necks, or just forget both.

Now, after all of that thanks to anyone who actually made it this far. Any comments on the plan or shopping list?

Looks complete...FWIW you could save a lot of time and trouble by buying some good Nosler 260 cases instead of forming your own...but a lot of people like the idea of making their own..Use the proceeds from selling that evil bike that keeps spitting you off to fund this project...Very few people have had near fatal crashes from their reloading stool..

Kitty

Jason,

Here is what I do for loading my 260 and it shoots sub 1 minute.

New brass: I use remington 260 brass.

Lube with RCBS num 2 and full lenght size/decap using a Redding die
Camferr, debur and clean primer pocket using an RCBS eletric tool (this is a must have) e-mail me for the name, I am in fl right now and cannot get it.
toss into the dillon tumbler
seat primer using an RCBS primer tool (bench)
drop powder using a sinclair benchrest powder measure (very fast and supper accurate, within .2 grns at 38, 90 percent of the time within .1)
seat bullet using a forester competion seating die. (very accurate with micro meter adjustment)

used brass.

same as above except only neck size. using a redding neck sizer (leave about a 16th of inch from the bottom of the neck to help eleminate streaching.

I am not looking for that last 1/4 inch of accuracy so the above loading processes seems to produce very consistant groups under 1 MOA. I am of the opinion that my biggest issue is with my barrel getting hot. Possibly with a better barrel thats flutted I might get a little better grouping than I am getting right now. But, I thing most of missing comes from the trigger puller me.

jneihouse wrote:Looks complete...FWIW you could save a lot of time and trouble by buying some good Nosler 260 cases instead of forming your own...but a lot of people like the idea of making their own.

I'm not forming my own. I'm using Remington 260 brass, as I haven't heard glowing reports of the quality of Nosler brass so it wasn't worth the extra cash versus Remington brass. I briefly considered buying the Lapua 243 brass, as I heard lots of good reports on it, but I am a big fan of the headstamp saying what the brass actually is. The reason that I use the expander die is to form up the mouths of new brass that is often out of round from the factory. I don't like having expander buttons on my sizing dies since it works the brass a lot more than necessary. Do you lube your fired cases before you shoulder bump/neck size them?

Yes to the lube, I use Imperial Sizing Wax....

Kitty

Another question here... the few folks that I talked to that use Redding bushing dies that also bump the shoulders just use the bushing FL sizing die. I noticed that I couldn't find a Redding bushing shoulder bump die, so do those of you who do that also use the Redding bushing FL die? Looks like I could adjust it to bump .002" and neck size for fired brass and put the expander button in for new brass. I don't see the bushing shoulder bump die from Forster being offered in 260 Rem, so I'm thinking that just these two dies might take care of all of my sizing and seating needs.

Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die 260 Remington
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=775416

Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater Die 260 Remington
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=740623

That would leave me the extra $100 over the full Redding set to spend on components and practice (once I heal up). Thanks again for all the answers to my newbie questions so far.

Let me qualify the below statements based upon my experiences. I have reloaded for for 50+ years with the majority of it being too stupid to really know what I was doing. I have found that precision results require precision tools and a lot of work. I currently hold a High Master NRA card for F-Class highpower rifles and shoot every weekend and a lot during the week (I'm retired now). I have made radical changes to my reloading processes after reading a lot, asking questions, recoding my range results and comparing them, measuring the consistency of my finished product, and shooting a LOT at distances up to 1000 yards.

One thing to watch on new brass - it will shorten a little when first fired - so if you trim it to minimum legnth before the first firing it will end up too short. The case expands to the chamber and in doing so shortens.

Second, most non-collet neck dies over size the necks and then pull them back over a mandrel to bring it back up to a desurd size and this causes the brass to stretch. It is my experience that collet neck sizing is far more desirable that conventional sizing. I get much better case life, zero case length growth, and the runout of reloaded ammo is far and away better than with conventinal dies. The use of collets also allows the neck size to set a desired neck tension for YOUR brass neck wall thicknes. Notice that the benchrest guys all use collet dies.

Third, the Redding body die (and I would guess other quality body dies) does not touch the necks at all. Using the body die will allow you to set the should back (I use .002") after a few firings to allow for easy loading into the gun and the rounds to not be dificult to extract without over sizing them. One trick I have leaned is that it will allow you to size loaded ammo should you start to get hard to load rounds that you have shot to many times without body sizing - saving the step of unloading, sizing and then reloading.

I firmly believe that the Forster reloading press performs its tasks better than other presses with fixed dies/shell holders. This has been proven for me with the use of precision runout check tools and target results. One qualifier is that hand dies (such as the Wilson dies) and and arbor press beat the any non-custom BR press every time.

As far as lubricant is concerned, I have changed over to Imperial Sizing Wax for all my reloading that requires lube. I believe it is THE lube to use all things considered.

And lastly, this is a forum on silhouette shooting. That means off hand shooting and I do not know of anyone that can shoot off hand to the level of accuracy that the gun can obtain.


George