HELP....2 stage triggers!!!!??????

[Hawk-1]

I am having my trigger on my 1710 changed to a 2 stage. I am getting conflicting stories on how it works. Could someone help me understand how it actually works. 1st opinion: 2lbs. on initial stage, 2lbs. on secondary stage. 2nd opinion: 2lbs. on initial stage, 8 ounces on secondary stage. I put a scale on a friends rifle who says his is the 2nd opinion, and when It came to a stop it still showed 38ounces when it fired. He says that is totally wrong. How do you realize 2lbs at a match weight (free weight) or spring scale, yet only show 8 ounces all of a sudden? Thanks in advance. I need an asprin now!!

[Jason]

It's not nearly as easy as adjusting the better 5022 trigger, but using pull weight and sear engagement adjustment, I have the first stage on my 1712's 2-stage trigger (5109?) set to 24 ounces and the second stage an additional 10 ounces. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here, but the way that it works is that you have to put 24 ounces of pressure (or hanging weight) to get the trigger all the way through the travel of the first stage to where it stops due to the greater resistance from the second stage. Then it takes 10 more ounces of pressure to make the trigger break. On a trigger gauge, the trigger pull weight measured to make the trigger break and fire a shot is 34 ounces (2lb 2oz). Since this exceed the 2lbs required for hunter class, it's legal. This allows the shooter to pull through the first stage and settle against the second stage when preparing to fire, only having to pull 10 more ounces of pressure (instead of 2lbs+) to fire the shot when the desired sight picture is achieved.

Does that help answer your question? If not, can you clarify a bit on exactly what you're asking?

[Hawk-1]

Now that makes a lot of sense. It is an additional amount, not a total amount once the first stage is complete. I need to remeasure to see what the first stage really is. It sure felt like the second stage was a lot more than 8 to 10 ounces though. I knew I could count on someone here with the info. Thanks a bunch. I may need to ask more as soon as mine arrives.

[Jason]

It's been a few years, but from the factory I think my trigger was 1lb or so on the first stage and about 1.5lb on the second stage. I adjusted it to be the way it is now.

[Trent]

One way to look at it is that the second stage is a "perceived" 10 ounces (or whatever it is set to). Once you take up the first stage and settle against the second stage your mind will essentially forget about how much weight it took to get to that point. Your muscles will hold at that "wall" and when you are ready to fire you will only need to apply the 10 ounces from the stage you are at.

In a way, you are tricking your muscles and mind into only feeling the 10 ounces extra that it takes to fire.

If I understand the 2 stage trigger correctly, you are basically adding a bunch of predictable creep into the trigger (first stage), and then another predictable trigger break at a slightly higher pull weight (second stage). Also, as I understand it, the 2 stage trigger wasn't designed to be a match trigger. It was designed to be a safe trigger for military weapons, but still allow those weapons to be accurate. Kind of like a DA/SA handgun. The first pull of the trigger is heavy and long so that you don't accidentally fire your weapon.

Personally, I like a good single stage trigger more than a two stage trigger, but I know I am probably in the minority on this.

[Evelio Mc Donald]

Hawk
I may be wrong, but I think, I am the one that converted your trigger, and the explanation from Jason is correct. It is really hard to really measure the actual pull on each stage. The ones I set, normally have about 24 ounces on the first stage, then you can feel a definit stop, and then you will need an extra 9 ounces pull for the trigger to break. The beauty about this triggers, is that if you don't break the shot, you can realease the pressure, and start all over with no difference in pull. You do have to be carefull though, sometimes once you are in the second stage, you may start to increase pressure without realizing it, and the shot goes off, other times you may go right thru the first stage, and BANG. Oh well.
Evelio.

[Jetmugg]

I have a 1712 FWT with the 2 stage trigger. I have not touched the adjustment as it was supplied from Champion's Choice. There is a definite "wall" that you will feel as you reach the end of the first stage, and you can feel the 2nd stage resistance. If you can learn and exercise good trigger control (I haven't come close to mastering this), only a small perceived effort is required to break the 2nd stage.

As Evelio stated - sometimes you will "pull through" the 2nd stage when trying to load the trigger for the 2nd stage. When that happens and you actually knock the target down, that's a pretty good feeling.

SteveM.

[Jerry G]

My annie is 70%/30%. It is not adjustable.

The two stages are accumlitave to the scale. You pull 1.7 lbs on the first stage and the remainder on the second.

[ter]

There are different cams available for the two stage trigger, so that may impact your results. Generally what I hear, and have experienced with my 2 1712s, is the best feel is when the trigger holds closer to 2.5 pounds, than 2 pounds. Mine are at about 1.5 on the first, and 1 pound on the second stage. That feels good to me, and prevents pull through. Personally, I like the (1710) single stage better, at a crisp 2 pounds. The 1712 always feels a bit mushy to me. Again that is with only utilizing trigger screws, different cams and some honing may make the 1712 trigger crisper.

[timbertoes]

rather interesting, that these are allowed in hunter class...since so many "hunting rifles" come with 2 stage triggers....

[Innocent]

Many of the CZ high power rifles come with a settable two stage trigger.

Mary

[BCloninger]

Instead of modifying a single stage trigger for two stages, consider buying a two stage trigger and selling the single. You may need patience, but it will sell. Personally, I prefer single stage triggers even though most shooters prefer a two stage trigger.

As for allowing them in Hunter class, remember that two stage triggers are pretty common in high power rifles so it isn't a stretch. Shoot what you like and allow others the same freedom - we have enough rules.

[Evelio Mc Donald]

TER
On the 1700, 1710 and 1712 rifles, there are no interchangeable cams on the trigger. It is a single stage or a two stage period, you can convert from one to the other by changing the actual trigger lever. In the two stage triggers the amount of pull can be adjusted for each stage. The trigger with the adjustable cam, and all the other bells and whitle is the model 5018 or 5020 which is used in the 54.18 MSR and the 1808 MSR, and several other fancy target rifles.
Evelio.

[ter]

TER
On the 1700, 1710 and 1712 rifles, there are no interchangeable cams on the trigger. It is a single stage or a two stage period, you can convert from one to the other by changing the actual trigger lever. In the two stage triggers the amount of pull can be adjusted for each stage. The trigger with the adjustable cam, and all the other bells and whitle is the model 5018 or 5020 which is used in the 54.18 MSR and the 1808 MSR, and several other fancy target rifles.
Evelio.

I guess I got it wrong, because I was repeating a story told by Neil Stepp. He said there were two versions of a "cam" on the 1712 trigger. I believed that this change in design changed the faction of balance between the stages. He said the 2 stage was common in europe, and about the time they started importing them in the US, Anschutz changed the geometry. This wouldn't be the first time I got something wrong, but that was my understanding. Again I am not an expert in the area, but I knew about the 5018/5020 story, and I don't think I am getting it mixed up. Maybe it was the geometry of the trigger lever, and Neil just said "cam"? I appreciate the correction. Thanks.

[Trent]

*Snip*
Personally, I prefer single stage triggers even though most shooters prefer a two stage trigger.

I guess I'm not as lonely as I thought!