Southern Hospitality? None Found In Pinson Ala.

[AZRifle]

Question from a Silhouette idiot to all the other expereinced posters: Why would you need to "rezero" just prior to every match anyway?

Assuming the targets are set at standard distances, other than windage, what would change?

If I am going to a range that is new to me, I am checking everything. The NRA Rules state the targets will be set at..... but that does not mean in reality they were. If the elevations of the targets relative to the firing line are not the same the settings can change. If the elevation of the range is different relative to sea level, the settings can change. If the temperature is different, the settings can change.

Granted it should all be similar and the experienced person should only need a short time to check it all out but, that does not mean that it is that simple or that short for everyone doing it.

I appreciate what some are saying about accommodating new shooters at their range but, I still would not bash the range director at Pinson, or even AuMiner. We do not know everything that was said in its exact form.
It seems that the biggest problem was AuMiner not knowing the starting time and made a mistake.

As I stated before, I think they deserve another chance and AuMiner needs to show up early enough to sight in.

[BCloninger]

Out of town folks may need to re-zero because humidity or temperature altered the stock, the range is lit differently than their home range (compare reflectivity of the green grass at OFGC and the crushed rock of Benton!) or road vibrations moved something.

As for the Match Director job, Kitty has offered to share it with us, but no takers. I think he does it just so we can't complain. I remember the shooter he mentioned, and also wondering what went wrong. I looked around and didn't see them, and then saw them packing up. Then reading his post, I never made the connection because I thought we had always been very cordial. Doh.

[timbertoes]

I went to my first shoot on a Saturday morning with a new gun that arrived Friday afternoon...

I think we were an HOUR early. One hours drive... I would not even consider a multi-hour drive if I wasnt going to be there an hour early..even with perfectly set up equipment.
Honestly, had they not been able to accomodate me, I would have stayed anyway. make friends, learn the range, have a good time.
I will danged if I will ever be one of those range sour pusses. they day that happens I will sell all my guns!! wtf.!!
Hospitality is a two way street...heck its a rotary exchange!!
Ranges are the lifeblood of shooting and even hunting. Its where it all comes together. everyone must do thier part, no matter if it seems trivial.

[SqHunter]

So you guys take all your bencherest shooting equipement with you to every match to verify zeros? That's not good.

I will have to drive 3 to 12 hrs to every match, I was hoping to take the car to save fuel over the truck and leave all the benchrest stuff at home. Guess not now. Learn something new every day.

-Thanks,

Rex

[jneihouse]

Just check your zeros offhand....no need to haul shooting bags and stuff around...going to shoot the match offhand anyway, not from the bench.....

Kitty

[SqHunter]

LOL You are better than me Kitty. I am improving, but there is no way I can tell 1/2" or even 1" shift at 100 due to inclination, sunlight, humidity, or whatever from offhand. I always establish zeros and examine trajectory with a given load from the bench, verify from position, then go. If something really was amiss I do not believe I could correct it adequately from offhand. Maybe from shooting sticks or bipod, but not offhand.

[Trent]

SqHunter, I am pretty new to the sport too. I needed a bench for the first couple of matches to sight in and gain confidence in my changes and equipment. Now after about 6 matches I feel pretty confident in my equipment and ammo that I am able to sight in without using a bench. If my shots are doing something totally strange then I'll just grab a hold of a post and fire a couple rounds that way to steady my hold. This isn't a game of group size, but you do want to make sure your shots are hitting where you are aiming.

Every range I have shot at provides benches so if you wanted all you would need is a cheap front rest and a rear bag for shooting off the bench. Several of the regulars here bring their bench gear to every match since they take up no room in the car and they often get used by them and many others.

[Bob259]

I for one am always surprised at the number of shooters that will sight in off the bench EVERYDAY at a bigger match. I've seen a few go through bricks of ammo off he bench over a 3 day event with the same pattern EVERYDAY... Am I missing something, of course I have excuse number 26 to fall back on now "Didn't sight in and rezero my rifle that day"

I understand this for Benchrest shooters, but not for Silhouette.

[Gator]

I for one am always surprised at the number of shooters that will sight in off the bench EVERYDAY at a bigger match. I've seen a few go through bricks of ammo off he bench over a 3 day event with the same pattern EVERYDAY... Am I missing something, of course I have excuse number 26 to fall back on now "Didn't sight in and rezero my rifle that day"

I understand this for Benchrest shooters, but not for Silhouette.

Fact is that as one get more proficient and becomes able to “call his/her shot”, a couple of offhand rounds will become adequate for verifying sights have not been changed and things are working out as planned. Some “warm-up” time may be valuable in the beginning but should be offhand shots. I feel bench time is necessary if things have changed. Don’t know how many times I have benched a gun, noted sight changes, on a familiar range, and returned to the original settings during the match because the new bench ones were not working. Different day, different personal karma but same gun. So what’s changed? I still hold that at my skill level, a good flyer can be an asset from time to time.
Gator

[timbertoes]

2 bag rests dont take up much room..
I always take extra ammo, tools, paper targets.
backup gun..
Usually the one tool I need at any range or hunting trip does get left at home...

[Dee]

Best way I have found to sight in offhand is to use swingers then you can compare your call of the shot to the impact on the target to get confirmation. My numbers rarely change and when they do it is just a few clicks. The main thing is remembering when you change ranges that some use 100 yards and others 100m which equals about a minute and a half difference.

As mentioned above just shooting offhand can show you a lot and if you feel like something is wrong a quick lean on a post to shoot will tell you if it is you or the rifle. Many times when warming up on Turkeys if I can't hit squat I post shoot a few to let me know it is just me. So far it has always just been me That quick little check lets you know you can be confident in the setup.

Also I have noticed times where shooting off a bench setup can vary from shooting offhand in POI. You are naturally going to do things offhanded that you do not do benched. Sometimes you need to account for these offhand variables with slightly different numbers than off the bench. It is pretty hard to make the bench mimic your offhand form.


Dee

[SqHunter]

I can see shooting offhand to 1) foul the bore 2) settle nerves and position. I just think immediately prior to a match is not the time to make major changes in equipement or zero.

Regardless, neither is allowed on match day at my home range. Range is cold on match day except for scheduled events. The only type of match where this is different is in rimfire benchrest, where unlimited siters are allowed but only during the competitors alloted time.

[BCloninger]

That's an argument for using the same rifle as everyone else is availability of parts, tools and expertise at major matches, or ask Bob for the excuse number...

As for sighting in off-hand - maybe someday...

- Bob

[sdwooster]

I see we have 2 interesting topics going on here. As a match director myself I have come across some of the same things as stated throughout this post. Dealing with people that are a little slow, not quite organized, having trouble sighting in, troubles with their equipment or just wondering when this 10 o'clock match is going to start!!! And most of the time its the same people every month. I have a guy that shows up at around 9:40 every match I have fires a couple of volleys and he is ready to go. In fact its my alarm clock when he shows up, I know we are getting close. But I guess the main idea I use is we need more shooters. If someone needs a little time or if some one needs a few extra sighters well we will just be a little late for our pie at the diner after the match. As for sighting in, when I first started shooting I would watch and take notes on some of the experienced shooters and listen on what they where doing. I remember one person that would work as hard on getting his bench zero's as he would shooting during the match. And then another that couldn't shoot off the bench to save his soul, and still can't and he knows it. So I guess its whatever the person feels good with. I usually like to have a good bench zero, sometimes its hard because their aren't very many places with good benches. But mainly its check my chicken zero and maybe a windage check at turkeys or rams. So I guess there isn't any right or wrong answer to either topic, its a whatever a person is comfortable with. As for the guy that took great time to get bench zero's, we have a match every April in his honor. As for the other guy, he still shoots once in a while, and might even read this and might even agree with me. The main thing we as match directors have to do is make sure people have a good time, get the help that they need. This will encourage them and sometimes they even bring friends to give it a try. We need all we can get.

[Jason]

I can see shooting offhand to 1) foul the bore 2) settle nerves and position. I just think immediately prior to a match is not the time to make major changes in equipement or zero.

Regardless, neither is allowed on match day at my home range. Range is cold on match day except for scheduled events. The only type of match where this is different is in rimfire benchrest, where unlimited siters are allowed but only during the competitors alloted time.

You really don't have any sight-in or practice period at all before silhouette matches? Even with my 1712 pillar bedded into a Pharr stock, I occasionally have up to 4 clicks (1moa) or so change with no ammo change or touching of the gun at all between matches due to weather/elevation/light changes. These targets we shoot at are small and that's a pretty big change. How many master scores are shot at those matches? Seems like that would hurt scores a lot, especially on turkeys and rams.