Remington 504 AKA Remshutz

[Jason]

I look at it this way, if you can buy this gun for less than $500 dollars add a Lilja barrel for $335 and a Pharr stock with bedding and pad for around $600. You would have a total of $1435.00 in the gun. What does the 1712 sell for with no modes $1400? I think it may make a top of the line entry level custom! Darn that was an oxymoron if I ever typed one.

Let's see.. I got my 1712 barreled action for like $865 and sunk right at $700 extra into total counting the Pharr stock, wide trigger, bottom metal, recoil pad, pillar bedding, etc by Mark Pharr. I have within a couple dollars of $1600 total into the gun. For the difference ($165), I don't think I'd risk going with the 504 when the 1712 is a proven option and you get the Anschutz 2-stage trigger with it.

[BlauBear]

Check current prices, Jason. Things have changed, I'm sad to say. I've taken some grief on this point - "You could have had an Anschutz for that!" Uh-Uh, maybe in the past, but not today. Current price for a 1712 FWT from Champion's choice is $1,450, and your rifle would cost closer to $2,000 today.

[Jason]

I didn't buy the whole rifle. I just bought the barreled action from Neal Stepp. Could that be the difference you're talking about?

[BlauBear]

Probably - the best price I've seen for a barreled 1712 action is $1,240, or about $400 more than you paid. So yes, a 504 action with a Lilja barrel would cost about what you paid for an Anschutz action, but I can't get one at that price.

[Jason]

Wow, that's about what the 54.18MSR barreled actions cost when I bought the 1712 barreled action.

[BlauBear]

That's the point, sad to say. Similarly, the Remington Custom Shop 40X .22 LR jumped from $1,600 to $2,000 in the last year so it's hard to blame currency exchange rates or supply and demand exclusively. The Euro took a sharp jump about a year ago (but has fallen back since without a corresponding drop in Anschutz parts) and U.S. military buying has been pretty aggressive, but the run up is hard to explain.

[BlauBear]

Bad news Paul - Remington has discontinued the 504 for 2007. It sounds like the custom shop will still build them to order, but the one we know is gone. It was suspicious when the market was flooded with them at cut rate prices, but they were still in the Spring 2007 catalog. Apparently Remington changed their mind.

From a business perspective it makes sense. 504's never managed to draw much positive attention and manufacturing sealed it with too many barrel problems. It's too bad because the design is solid even though QC screwed the pooch.

[Evelio Mc Donald]

You got to be kidding, are you really serious, now that we just about got all their problems solved, they quit making them ????? I guess that tell us a lot about the people that runs the Green Co. instead of solving their problems, and continuing making a good product, they just quit, SHAME
I guess we will be shooting guns made overseas , pretty much like we are doing know.
Next thing they all will be stamped MADE IN CHINA ??????

[BlauBear]

The news knocked the wind out of me, but maybe there are details to brighten the situation. I plan to know more tomorrow.

I thought Remington should withdraw the 504, make some cosmetic changes and get a handle on QC, then reintroduce it as the 507. Maybe even get aggressive with niche markets like Silhouette to rebuild the reputation. But this leaves them without a US made .22 bolt action outside of the Custom Shop, and nothing in their production line up that resembles a target rifle. Pretty sad.

[Evelio Mc Donald]

Blaubear.
Are you trying to tell me that the Rem. 700 are not being made in the US anymore, I know they discontinue the ADL, and only making the BDL, I kind of wonder why they came up with the new ( OLD ) Mauser action style, nothing wrong with them for hunting, but they suck for precision shooting, the lock time is way to slow compare to the 700 action.
But I guess it all begining to make sence, every action made overseas is based on the old Mauser action, so old Rem. is making the transition slowly, to eliminate all rifles made in USA unless you go thru the Custom shop, and pay exorbitant prices.
Winchester ( made in china )
Remington ( made in china )
Wallmart ( made in china )
Have you ever look at the sticker on anything you buy now ( made in china )
I am pissed.

[BlauBear]

The Remington 700's are still US made, but the Mauser style actions are from Czechoslovakia by the same manufacturer that builds the Model 5 .22. Since I'm doing graduate study in workforce development the migration of manufacturing jobs is particularly troubling.

Privately, Remington has complained that there just aren't enough educated workers for their plants in the south, but I suspect management took their experienced workers in Ilion - with generations of factory experience - for granted and expected similar performance from first generation factory workers fresh from the farm. That's unrealistic of course, but since cultural issues don't directly appear on the balance sheet, well intended business folk too easily overlook them. I'd love looking at this for a case study!

In hindsight, basic quality control would have prevented this fiasco.

One story making the rounds is that 504's will be available from the Custom Shop as the 547 for about $1,000 each. Since this fits with the "What's New" article from Guns & Ammo, that bit sounds plausible.

[BlauBear]

Okay, here's the scoop straight from Remington.

The 547 is a 504 with a redesigned cocking handle and magazine box, polished bolt (like the 700) and a Shilen Barrel in .22 LR or .17 HMR. Polished blue receiver and barrel instead of crinkle finish (Parkerized? Gun Kote?) used now, walnut stock with end cap and a hard case. Guaranteed .5" groups at 50 yards. Six month lead time. Sounds an awful lot like what Paul and Evelio have worked towards.

I asked about ordering with a Silhouette friendly stock, and he didn't know but thought it might be possible. My thought now is to talk to them again in July, talk to Evelio, and then weigh cost and outcomes against the Anschutz 1712.

[jneihouse]

I think it broke the company when Blaubear made them put new barrels on his two 504's......That says a lot when a company can't produce a consistantly good rimfire rifle so they move it to the custom shop and raise the price....IMHO it would pay all the rimfire rifle makers to show up at some of the larger matches (the Nationals, Southern Nationals, etc) and just look at what is being used on the line and to talk to shooters. Maybe even shoot a few of the guns being used......Seems to me that would be a much cheaper and more accurate market survey..........

Kitty

[BlauBear]

But they might get their suits dirty, John!

[jneihouse]

They would if they hung with me.............

Kitty.