Question regarding spotting

[dryfire]

I believe in spotting for a shooter you are there to do a job for them. It
would be fantastic if you could quickly develop a rapport with any shooter you might be spotting for and know what they want to hear from you as
to advice on wind or shotfall or whether they have adjusted there scope
for distance or to keep them on track with mental focus
Unfortunately, we cannot always be allocated a spotter like that nor can we be that for others.
Ask the shooter what they want to hear from you, if they are able to they
I am sure will tell you quick enough!
Spotting skill like shooting skill has to be developed with time and
practice . The best situation is to practice with someone you shoot with
frequently - kind of like a buddy system.

Lone ringer
Are full value winds not from 90degrees and 270degrees?
From my understanding of Bassham,Wigger,Mid Tompkins et al that
a 180 degree wind has little deflection value other than to cause the bullet
to strike slightly higher.
If this is so then Jerry G.'s comment on full value wind ,90 degrees and
if it was for the full flight of the bullet out to 100m, 4" deflection would be
approximatley correct , yes?

The most relevant winds are the ones blowing between the firing line
and 50-60 meters as they are going to have the greatest effect in deflecting the bullet's path. So it would seem these are the ones to
watch for in spotting and to let the shooter know about.

Regards
Andrew

[lone ringer]

Andrew, you have a PM

[dryfire]

Lone ringer

No PM received

Andrew

[lone ringer]

Andrew, I did make a wrong statement when I said 180 degrees had the full wind value. You and Jerry are correct by saying that 90 and 270 degrees have the full value. I still think that a 10 mph wind would only move the .22 standard velocity bullets about 2

[dryfire]

Lone ringer
That is a very interesting little chart for quick reference. Very graphic
so it's easy to follow.Would be nice if there was something similar for
intermediate distances out to 100m.
From the chart data I concur with you that 100m deflection appears to
be 2" approximate.
I have the chart saved but I can't help you with posting it

Regards
Andrew

[sobrbiker883]

AlBal with a modified drag coefficient for smaller projectiles (as opposed to the standard G1 drag function most centerfire blliistics programs uses) puts my 40gr 1050fps mv at 3.17" over with an FV 10mph crosswind. This goes well with what I've shot in the field.....

Here's a cute chart for wind effects on shot placement for our little subsonic pills.
IIRC, its from the 50yd benchrest boys as well:


All the more reason I like to tell the conditions, not where the shooter should hold.......

[jneihouse]

How's this?

[lone ringer]

Thank you Kitty, that was nice of you.
For those of you that have not a lot of experience shooting outdoors with .22s I recommend you buy the CD ROM "Winning In The Wind" by Lones Wigger and Lanny Bassham. You can buy it from Lanny's Web site http://www.mentalmanagement.com/A_winning_in_wind.htm
or Champion Shooters Supply and no I do not work for either one of them, I recommend Lanny's books, tapes and videos because they have given me knowledge and understanding of the many things that are needed to become a better shooter.

[Jerry G]

If the wind is blowing at 90 degrees from your bullet path, it doesn't matter if it is at 3, 9, north, south or what. it's still going to do the same thing. The point I was trying to make is the wind does matter when you are at the longer distances and a spotter needs to let you know. I will say once again, don't tell the shooter to hit dirt.

[dryfire]

Jerry G
Your right if the wind is constant from firing line to 100m targets.
If you are shooting on a range with wind flags the most significant ones
are the 40 & 60 m line. If those flags are still , any wind beyond these will have a small effect on bullet flight.

Andrew

[lone ringer]

Bobby, you hit the nail in the head with the statements you made in regards to spotting. In my opinion some of the best combination of spotters and shooters are related by blood. Two of the best combos I have seen through out the years involved fathers spotting for their daughters even though the fathers were not shooting but only spotting.

I spot/coach for a young very good friend of mine mostly at large matches like the Nationals and I do it like he was my own son, he absorbs the information I give him like a sponge and because of his extraordinary talent he is able to put it to good use, never argues or questions my calls even though I may not be right on the money 100% of the time but the main thing is that he trusts me and knows that I am doing my best to help him do well.

[atomicbrh]

In reference to the IIRC 50 yard Benchrest Wind Chart for right hand twist barrels posted by sobrbiker883: (1) In my limited experience the chart is correct. (2) The chart troubles me because I have great difficulty at the range under match conditions with the wind flags provided and my poor ability at reading mirage to detect whether the wind is a 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock wind. (3) I can detect a head wind, tail wind, 3 o'clock, 9 o'clock and somewhat detect quartering winds like 45, 135, 225, 315 degrees to the shooter but not in fine enough detail to tell the difference in a 12 and 1 o'clock wind. (4) Look at the dramatic difference in the bullet hit between a 12 and 1 o'clock wind. The bullet in a 1 o'clock wind hits slightly high and slightly left. The bullet in a 12 o'clock wind hits very low and very slightly left.

Now, a personal wind story of my own: My son and I like to frequently get out of our comfort zone and shoot matchs much different from silhouette. So, last winter I took my son on a two hour drive from home to shoot a Indoor Junior ISSF 3-Position Air Rifle Match. After the 3-P match, he also shot Junior International Standing and scored really well for his first match. It looked to me like he was having a great time. On the drive home I asked him if he wanted to sell our Silhouette equipment and switch totally to ISSF Competiton. He said "No Dad, I want to sell this Air Rifle Stuff and buy another Silhouette Rifle. It's no fun to shoot unless the wind is blowing the bullet around."


Thanks sobrbiker883 for posting such an interesting wind chart. I hope Innocent and lone ringer give us some input on calling such a small degree change in the wind which is undetectable to the average spotter but potentially has such a great effect on the bullet path. Of course it always helps the spotter when your shooter can hold a tight group and call his hits.

Bobby R. Huddleston

[CWS]

Bobby... wind flags, like sheep, lie. To differentiate between an 11,12, or 1 o'clock headwind you have to watch the mirage. If it 'boils' straight up, it's at 12 o'clock. Down here there's rarely any question about where it is at that moment... we get plenty of mirage. The question is where it'll be when the shot breaks. A steady 15mph 90degree wind is a laugher compared to winds that gust from 10-25mph and shift from 10 to 2. And folks wonder why I don't worry about scores....

[lone ringer]

Bobby, if you were to get the CD ROM "Winning In The Wind" by Lones Wigger and Lanny Bassham you would see that their wind graphs are similar to the one posted but in my opinion much more realistic. Since we are not shooting Bench Rest, English Match or SB three positions outdoors our wind guesstimates are not as critical as in those other shooting sports (just my opinion).

The wind changes more critical to us are the one

[dryfire]

That's an interesting wind chart Sobrbiker , I thought it looked familiar.
"Shooting for Gold" by Bill Krilling illustrates the same chart. The unfortunate thing is there is no reference given for wind strength and the
amount of bullet movement from either source. A 5mph wind would give about an 8-ring shot.An 8-ring shot release on an NRA 100yd
target would take you right out of contention but would anchor every one
of our silos.
If we add this to the amount if movement in our natural holds we have some real problems. I think the average shooter does not possess
more than about an equivalent to a 7-8ring hold. Improving hold is critical.
Mirage also shifts the image of the target which can be as much or more than the deflection of the bullet due to wind,especially at 100m.
Something we have to experience and note in our diary.