score book rule ??

[ldholton]

In the score books at the top of the classes of guns it ask " the two highest 40,60 or 80 shot scores fired from last year of competition "
so if the those are the highest scores in say 2013 book will you carry them over to 2014 even if all your score recorded in the lower part are of lower scores ? I think I know the answer and why but lets here your thoughts , rule book does not mention this that I could find

[OldRanger]

I'm new to this but I was told no. You only get to carry over scores shot in the prior year. If you shoot all scores in your current class you have to start over as far as having a leg (or two) into another class. Thats how it was explained to me a couple weeks ago when I was transferring to a new book for the first time.

[dustinflint]

You get two years to fire three scores in a higher classification to move up in classification. So, since we are still in the stone ages and we have to write everything on a piece of paper to keep track, it's necessary to know whether you fired a score or two in the previous year that contributes to your moving up in class. That's why you put your highest two scores from the year before in the book.

Lets say you're AA in standard rifle and you just got your 2014 book. You look back at your 2013 book to find the highest two standard scores SHOT IN 2013 and you write them up top where it says. Let's assume both your highest standard scores from 2013 were AAA scores, you need only to fire one AAA or Master score in 2014 to move into AAA. But, if you don't fire a AAA or Master score in 2014 you lose those two AAA scores from 2013.

Dustin

[Snake]

Dustin, I think your prior years scores live on. While the book only shows the highest from the prior year,,,you can't move down without proof of a series of lower scores over the past and no scores in the class you seek to escape. No scores are lost they just get harder to prove. Note that the book also asks for your previous class thus two higher scores from the very previous year is supposed to alert to a sandbagger or the prospect of moving the shooter up. The bias is to higher classification

[dustinflint]

Yeah I suppose you're right as the scores apply to moving DOWN in classification (although I can't fathom why anyone would want to do that). When I say the scores are lost I mean that the AA shooter only has until the end of 2014 to take advantage of that AAA score shot in 2013.

Still, the written scorebook system is so antiquated and sandbagger-susceptible that it doesn't really matter what's written in those books.

Dustin

[ldholton]

Snake if you are correct , than lets say a AA shooter that usually shoots low AA score , but at some point had a great day a couple times along the way and shot AAA score he than would carry the 2 AAA scores forever just needing to shoot 1 more AAA score at any time to be moved to AAA even if were over a time period of like 20 years ?

[OldRanger]

Snake if you are correct , than lets say a AA shooter that usually shoots low AA score , but at some point had a great day a couple times along the way and shot AAA score he than would carry the 2 AAA scores forever just needing to shoot 1 more AAA score at any time to be moved to AAA even if were over a time period of like 20 years ?

I think there are 2 different sets of rules for this. For moving up you only get last year and the current years scores to consider. For moving down you get the last 12 scores regardless of when they were fired.

[Snake]

Yes if a match director can prove the prior year's scores he can move the shooter up...proving the old scores is the issue. Thus its ripe for sand bagging. I have two master scores from 1993....I will carry them and use them if I get one more....because there's nothing in sand bagging...we really compete against ourselves ...the other guys only provide entertainment ;) By the way a match director can move you up if he thinks and can articulate that you belong in a higher class ( the 'I caught ya' rule)....then you can protest your ass off I had a guy who would shoot right up to the upper end of AA and then shot dirt..a few guys began to notice and so did I and he now is a resident in AAA....not a peep....remember to move down you have to prove the 12 consecutive lower scores...and this guy's proof would be incredible

[Bob259]

I always found it interesting that in NRA Bullseye, HP, CMP NRA Light Rifle, International, etc the scores are all sent in and the shooter gets his card from the shooting body stating his current ranking, e.g. Sharpshooter, Expert, Master... etc. Could never understood why Silhouette seemed to be the only group that did not track that. Seems as though it would be easy seeing all the other sports have it already set up and running and all that would be required is sending the match scores in with your match results. Maybe all the silhouette community wants is the money.

[Snake]

Historically, silhouette was a bastard discipline eschewed by the high power elite and filled with cranky whiny shooters who didn't want people telling them what to do because they thought the NRA was too bossy ...so this lame score book crap started and just keeps going. There was a time when manufacturers would give stuff away at the Nationals and show up with displays almost like Camp Perry....can't you tell how the NRA runs the Nationals...like its a burden and they do very little to promote it. Just think-- out of your Nationals entry fee the hosting club gets $2 per...you have to give the Ridgeway boys a lot of credit for their love of the sport because there isn't even break even money for them. Our game is hard and your results are public immediately....no hiding in a scoring tent and slinking away unnoticed....that my friends chases off a lot of Daniel Boones and any improvement in score keeping......Give me Connor's job and I'll fix it and amp up our nationals

[Jerry G]

by Snake on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:52 pm

"Yes if a match director can prove the prior year's scores he can move the shooter up...proving the old scores is the issue. Thus its ripe for sand bagging."

I have known quite a few sandbaggers over the years. Most of them quit silhouette because many of the other shooters shun them. I do think most shooters are trying to better their shooting and wouldn't think of sandbagging. After all, what is a chunk of glass or man on a stick worth if you come by it by cheating?

[dustinflint]

Just think-- out of your Nationals entry fee the hosting club gets $2 per...you have to give the Ridgeway boys a lot of credit for their love of the sport because there isn't even break even money for them.

This is why private clubs should be running the nationals and the NRA should stay out of it. Let the clubs keep the money to give them a reason to want to run the match. The NRA's participation should be limited to taking bids of some sort and awarding the next nationals to a bidding club.

Give me Connor's job and I'll fix it and amp up our nationals

I'd vote you in and him out in a heartbeat.

Dustin

[ldholton]

Well it didn't take long for the same argument we experienced last weekend . I understand both sides , just wish the rule would be clarified better . Which way I personally don't care which way , just wish everyone would do it the same. Everything I found I believe Dustin is correct on his thinking

19.5 NRA Silhouette Classification Books - Silhouette Classification
Books are to be sold on a calendar year basis, by NRA Affiliated Clubs sponsoring NRA Sanctioned Tournaments. NRA Classification Books are not to
be used to record scores fired in non-NRA sanctioned tournaments. The two
highest scores from the last year FIRED in each discipline will be entered at the
top of the appropriate page. The competitor’s classification will be carried
forward from the last year fired to the current year.

[OldRanger]

Well it didn't take long for the same argument we experienced last weekend . I understand both sides , just wish the rule would be clarified better . Which way I personally don't care which way , just wish everyone would do it the same. Everything I found I believe Dustin is correct on his thinking

19.5 NRA Silhouette Classification Books - Silhouette Classification
Books are to be sold on a calendar year basis, by NRA Affiliated Clubs sponsoring NRA Sanctioned Tournaments. NRA Classification Books are not to
be used to record scores fired in non-NRA sanctioned tournaments. The two
highest scores from the last year FIRED in each discipline will be entered at the
top of the appropriate page. The competitor’s classification will be carried
forward from the last year fired to the current year.

I dunno, that seems pretty clear to me. The 2 highest scores fired last year count this year, older scores do not count (all of this for moving up). Where is the controversy if it states the 2 highest scores fired last year... ?

[ldholton]

Mr. Ranger I agree , but some do not. I too get tired of " sandbagging" if the rules need to be changed than so be it but the same process needs to be followed for all. No matter what you do some are gonna cheat even at a "gentalmans " game. Not sure if one wants to keep their highest scores recorded as snake mentioned I see no issue with that , can one asked to be classified higher than they have shot into ? Kina be the samething as I see it ,