Claim Rifle!

[atomicbrh]

I am going to throw an idea out to everyone for discussion. I come from a kart racing background and was very successful with my career culminating in a WKA National Championship in 1994. Since the start of my competitive shooting involvement, I have used much of the technology and experiences from racing in competitive shooting.

In most forms of racing there is what is known as a claimer class. When you race in this class, you usually agree on paper before entering the race that you will sell (many times excluding heads and/or carburator) your engine for a set price to any other competitor racing in the same class if that competitor "claims" your engine. With some governing bodies, you would pay the set price and you would also trade engines with the racer that you "claimed" depending on the governing body rules. IMCA was a governing body that had this class if I remember correctly. Other rules might state that you would have to finish in the top five before you could claim a top 5 finisher's engine or that you would have to complete three races before you could start claiming engines. This was the ultimate playing field leveler. Even a wealthy racer would not put a lot of money into a engine that he would have claimed and be racing against the following week. If the wealthy racer purchased one expensive engine every week to win the race and got it claimed, soon the wealthy racer would have the whole field of racers supplied with expensive engines through the claimer system. This claimer system really worked and increased participation. The system made full size car racing affordable to the masses.

Nobody wants to add a third class to smallbore but this concept would work in Smallbore Silhouette and provide a class that any one could afford to compete in. I am not talking about setting a MSRP new price limit for the rifle, scope, etc. as in production IHMSA. I am talking about if you are shooting in this proposed class, you are agreeing to sell your scope, rifle and rings to a person competing in the same class as it comes off the firing line after the match for a price set forth in the rules. If you set a price of $300 or lower for scope, rings and rifle there would be no one who could complain that the sport is too expensive for them to begin competition. My suggestion also is to make the rules for Hunter rifle apply to this "Claimer" class to keep things somewhat sensible and keep the rifle from being modified in some unusual ways. The competitor could then shoot the other two classes if he wished because he would have a legal rifle.

Most Clubs have a club member who holds an FFL that can do the paperwork in states that require it but many states like mine only require a face to face transaction between individuals for used firearm transactions.

Please respond with any pros and cons that you may think of.

Bobby R. Huddleston

[Jason]

I put too much time into tweaking my rifles and practicing with them, even the cheaper ones I use for cowboy silhouette. I wouldn't shoot in such a match and would avoid it to keep from having to witness the inevitable arguments.

[carl425]

I think you've got an answer for a problem that simply doesn't exist. Silhouette shooting and auto racing are hugely different endeavors. If you and I take our cars to the track and race, then trade cars and race again, the best car will win both times. If we both go to the silhouette range and shoot, trade rifles and shoot again, the best shooter will win both times.

I don't think anybody with any experience in this game at all cares what anybody else on the line is shooting. At our club, nobody even cares if your rifle complies with the rules - it's bring what you've got and let's have some fun shooting. Haven't you been reading this forum? The one point that gets universal agreement post after post is that it's not about the rifle, it's about the shooter.

[sdwooster]

From what I have seen in car racing the claimer class caused nothing but problems. Fights and bad feelings and even some major damage at the next race. Give a good shooter or driver a piece of so so equipment and he will still make it to the top. I have seen $3000 standard rifles get beat by factory Remingtons. So was it the rifle or the shooter? Equipment might help a little, but the bottom line is the person holding the rifle. I have never been out shot by a rifle yet, but I have only been shooting sence 1988. I have been out shot by may good shooters. So thats my 2 cents.

[kevinpagano]

I have a twist on your idea. Anybody in A or B class should be squaded with a master or AAA shooter at local matches. They then have the ability to shoot the upper classmans rifle. ooops wait a minute that happens anyway, well almost. hehehehhe

I dont thing many people would want to give up their rifles even for a price. My first Sil rifle was a CZ 452 and have no problems shooting it from time to time. I wouldnt even want to give it up as my wife won her class in her first match with it. You would have to pry it out of her fingers to get it now at any price.

Kevin

[Quonset Hut]

I think the "too expensive to begin competition" is just an excuse given by people who didn't want to try anyway. Plenty of folks around here started with a pawn shop Marlin 25 and the $60 Bushnell 4-12 that had an elevation turret. The lower classes were mainly made up of starter rifles, unless a kid shot a family Anschutz.

After a couple of years, I saw a $275 NS-522 I couldn't resist, and put on a $125 24x. This rifle got me to AA in two seasons. My first gun ever was the Marlin 2000 for indoor position, and I bought an extra stock to be cut for Silhouette. When it came to the point that I thought the gun was holding me back after three seasons, I convinced my wife that getting a 54-18 with a rail for position matches made sense. While top equipment can provide better results, you have to be able to shoot to score high. I think that the 5000 rounds I shot the first summer through the pawn shop Marlin did more for me than anything else, My Sihouette scores improved and I picked up the NRA Light Rifle Distinguished Expert award.

[stsbuyer]

I am the match director at my local club in Pearland Texas. At my match last month I had 15 shooters, two of them shooting one of my rifles.

One was a new shooter with his Ruger 10-22 with custom heavy barrel and none target scope. He did not adjust between animals and shot I believe an 11 for his first score in standard rifle. I let him shoot one of my hunter rifles for the next match. It was a Remington 40x with a Brown Precision silhouette stock, 25" #5 Lilja barrel, and a Jewell 2# 2 stage trigger with a Weaver T-24. Pretty much a hunter race rifle; guess what his score was in the second match 11. If the gun makes a difference what happened here. I have 8 hunter rifles to choose from and pretty much shoot the same score on average no matter which one I choose. Is there one I prefer to shoot, sure there is. There are going to be people that say our sport has gotten to expensive and too much of an equipment race. But it is only an equipment race if you want it to be and my opinion is that the price of everything is higher not just silhouette.

Here is my 2 cents on what I think is the problem. I am 50, when I was a child boys had football, baseball, and other sports thru school and everything was pretty much free to participate. Now there are so many other things for kids to do. All of which cost plenty of money. A parent now has there kids in so many different activities that there is something that they are doing all most every weekend. If I had to choose between my daughter participating in her dance classes and my shooting, she would come first. I believe that there are a lot of people that have made the same decision.

My opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[BlauBear]

It's actually an interesting proposition not so much because it lowers the entry bar, but because it creates an interesting challenge - Can I assemble a competitive rig on a budget? Raise the claim amount to $500 and it might be serious fun!

Hmm, let's see, CZ Silhouette, Weaver KT15, Brooks kit, and decent rings... Puts me over $500, but not too seriously. If it's all new gear I'm gambling $100, so let's hit the used racks...

[Jason]

Sure.. hit the used racks and spend a few months finding good deals and getting the rifle together. And then have someone take it at the first match you shoot with it. Yeah, sounds like a load of fun.

[jneihouse]

One big problem in a claimer class as I see it. FFL, BATF......Some have called our sport "The most difficult rifle sport available". Yes it's tough. Do you have to have expensive equipment to participate? No. Does expensive equipment make you better? In most cases, no. In my case I don't think my custom guns make me appreciably better, but theydo elimate a variable that I have control over. That leaves me time to focus on the variables that I can work on, such as hold, squeeze, follow through. Do I enjoy my custom rifles? Yes I do. I worked hard to be able to afford and enjoy them. I enjoy sharing them with shooters that are aware of my investment in my guns and are safe shooters. I won't let careless and unsafe shooters touch my rifles...be it Evelio McDonald's lastest beauty or the 10-22 I built for my Grandaughter. There is no easy answer for the "arms race" going on in our sport. Enjoy the ride and shoot.

Kitty

[mordecai]

Maybe we should just have one rifle and each share it - that'd make everything fair. I call dibs on next Sunday.

[Innocent]

I would like to shoot a different rifle for each animal. Have the owner set the sights for that animal from the bench, and each competitor walk the line firning the rifle for that distance.

Innocent

[slowstdy]

Innocenty. Now thats a good idea.
If we shoot yours do we have to take our shoes and socks off?

[Innocent]

Limey,
You can take your shoes and socks off only if you can turn tricks with your toes!!!
Innocent

[BlauBear]

Okay, I take it back. Life's to short for perpetual fiddling with the equipment, which is why I got an Anschutz 1712 with Leupold scope, and plan on sending my current problem child to Evelio's "Home For Wayward Rifles" instead of struggling with it myself. Experimenting taught me a lot that I'm happy to share with new shooters whatever their budget is, and whatever their preferences are, but right now I need more practice time and less time chasing and tuning parts.

Relationships are a big part of this sport, and anything threatening that should be avoided.