Claim Rifle!

[jneihouse]

I actually really like Innocent's tricks she turns with her toes...errrr...I mean her idea of shooting a different rifle at each bank of animals....We might actually try that in our next smallbore match at OFGC....The rifle thing, not the toe thing......Couldn't ever get my toes to quite curl around like Innocent's .....Man, that lady is talented and can shoot too......

Different subject, not related.....The Conard Cup WAS A HOOT....Will definately be back next year and urge all that can to go and shoot it. Well run, good folks, good food......I was almost ready to sell my accounting practice and move up there until the Great White Shark attacked me....

Kitty

[shakes]

For those of you who are married and the wife isnt happy with you spending money on guns in the first place try explaining that you have to spend another $300 or $500 dollars on another gun. "What do you mean you lost your gun" "What do you mean you have to buy another one" "Where are you going to get the money for it? the mini van needs new tires" I can just see it (or hear it) now. Who wants to put up with that?

[atomicbrh]

I gather from the replies so far that most current competitors think that not the rifle but the athlete shooting the rifle is the most important factor for success in Smallbore Silhouette. I agree with this consensus. The whole concept of the claimer class is being missed. I propose the claimer class as a cheap entry level class. The whole idea is to spend less money putting the "claim" rifle together than the claim rifle price since equipment is not as important a factor as the shooter.

When your rifle is claimed you actually make money and have money available to put your next claimer rifle together or immediately purchase claim another rifle from another person in the claimer class. My personal claimer class rig would be any used bolt action rifle(mechanically safe to fire) that I could find cheap, any of the ring sets laying around before I discovered BKL, and a new Bushnell air rifle scope with 1/4 MOA clicks and resettable target turrets from www.swfa.com for fifty something dollars.

Shakes, what is your wife going to say when you put a competition rig together for less than $150, someone claims it for $300 at a range using a $300 claimer rule and you come home with $150 profit? Your wife is going to say, "Honey, you are a genius. Put another rifle together and go do that again."

We need a cheap entry level class for the newbies to get their feet wet and get hooked like the rest of us and I do not think it is B class as it exists now. The newbies have to get started and spend time around the seasoned competitors before they realize the difference in life span, quality and resale value of the rifles they have shot all their lives versus the current crop of high quality Smallbore Silhouette rifles.

The number one stumbling block that I am experiencing in promoting a new range struggling in its first Approved match season is equipment cost. The first question is "How much does the rifle you are using cost?" Then the potential newbie says: "There is no way that I can afford one of those for me and one for my son or daughter." I have only had one family buy the CZ452 that I suggested as an entry level rifle and the father/son share it.

Please post any ideas that you might have for getting folks seriously interested in starting this fine sport. I think we should always be looking for ways to get new shooters interested because we are losing shooters all the time if you have not noticed.

Bobby R. Huddleston

[coppertop]

I have a couple of my old homemade rigs here that I started this sport with, that I no longer use. If I knew of a youth that was interested in seriously taking up silhouette, I would be happy to either let them use them indefinitely or sell them at a discount. I agree that there needs to be much more youth involvement in all shooting sports. If not then in time they will disappear. I think any idea is a good idea if it encourages a new shooter to compete. Just let one kid ask me to use my gun and I will smile while I watch him/her use it.

[kevinpagano]

I have thought about putting together a Savage tapered barrel, laminated stock and scope for 150 bucks from Dicks. I want to put it together so newbies can shoot it and when they ask how much it cost I can say about 250 bucks with a little better scope. maybe a banner series or something like that for a scope. Anybody have any ideas on a scope that tracks well for 100 bucks or so???

Kevin

[Jetmugg]

The BSA Platinum has a decent reputation for a scope in this price range. They are available with dot reticles and variable powers topping out at either 24X or 32X.

SteveM

[dwl]

I see the logic for the Claimer Class guns but I think it's a solution looking for a problem. The reason for a Claimer Class in race karts to prevent cheating on motor modifications.

Applying this solution to silhouette rifles suggests that we have a problem with Cheater Guns. I suppose I'm a cheater gun shooter. (Lot of good that did me at the last match!) While I recall a certain opnionated discussion on so-called Cheater Guns, I don't recall hearing of a gun disqualified at a match.

Certainly high priced guns are NOT the limiting factor for silhouette shooting. The two most limiting factors are social pressure and self will.

I provide two silhouette leagues a year (soon to be three). I see lots of shooters who are interested and are reasonably successful with moderatly priced guns. Mostly they shoot for four of six weeks and disappear never to be seen again.

The other scenerio is their family and friends find out they're shooting and disapprove. The classic here in Utah is the wife disapproves and the poor drudge of a husband gives in. Like I said, no will.

So much for my rant. I don't see Claimer Class even getting a start in silhouette. People who build a guns don't give them away lightly. However, I am in favor of fun shoots. How about a match for obsolete or open sighted guns. How about a match prize of a low cost gun fixed up for silhouette shooting. Now that sounds fun.

dwl

[propwash]

The number one stumbling block that I am experiencing in promoting a new range struggling in its first Approved match season is equipment cost. The first question is "How much does the rifle you are using cost?" Then the potential newbie says: "There is no way that I can afford one of those for me and one for my son or daughter." I have only had one family buy the CZ452 that I suggested as an entry level rifle and the father/son share it.

Okay for starters I have to say if you were going to claim a crappy rifle for $300 why not just go out and buy a new CZ for the same money? Secondly, I can think of very few hobbies that are free....we have to pay to play, no exceptions. If you want to reduce cost just go away from an NRA approved and put together "fun matches" using any gun you want to gain interest and then move forward. I have to say, if nobody has gone there yet that this is a shooters game....give the top shooters in this sport a box stock CZ silhouette and they will still shoot master scores. They don't do this now because they don't have to. They shoot the best because 1. they can and 2. sponsors pay for ammo, scopes, guns and probably transportation to matches so they don't have to.

[duckgumbo]

In response to Bobby's ideas, they may sound grreat on the surface, but we already have enough problems with sandbaggers and the NRA changing rules all the time. The less rules, the better.

I am for what the majority of the shooters want. Why not run a poll and see what type of answers that you get.

In my opinion, keep it simple. Any person can get into this sport rather inexpensively and be competitive in the lower classes right off the bat unless they are up against the scum of earth - SANDBAGGERS AND CHEATERS!

With the price of everything going up, there are a lot of rigs under $500 that can get a person started. As they get more confident and better at the sport, then they should look at upgrading and not until then.

I am totally against any Claimer class, etc. that is not in the best interest of the sport. Driving any type of car in any type of race and trying to compare it to shooting and it's related equipiment is like comparing apples and oranges. What works for car related sports probably won't work for shooting in any discipline.

Just my 25 cents worth!

[Jetmugg]

Wasn't Dave Imas shooting a Marlin model 60 earlier this season or last season just trying to prove that it's the shooter, not the rifle, that is responsible for the scores?

I agree that it's not the cost of entry (equipment wise) that is keeping more people from getting involved in silhouette shooting. This does seem a bit like a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

SteveM.

[mordecai]

I think Imas could use a slingshot and still put up a Master score... Guy makes me ill. HAHAHA

[shakes]

I think Imas could use a slingshot and still put up a Master score... Guy makes me ill. HAHAHA

You could probably blindfold him as well and get the same results. I think he knows the secret of the force and is not sharing with anybody.
"There is no cant, only DO or DO NOT" famous Jedi Master

[sobrbiker883]

I provide two silhouette leagues a year (soon to be three). I see lots of shooters who are interested and are reasonably successful with moderatly priced guns. Mostly they shoot for four of six weeks and disappear never to be seen again.

As a fellow that started last November, and still climbing out of B class, I'll offer my opinion.....
I find that often I'm more looking to improve my equipment than providing myself the practice time and determination I know I need to succeed. I have an accurized 10/22, a Savage Anschutz Mark 10D and a CZ Silhouette. All of them will drop any animal if I can break the shot properly.

The thing that keeps me coming back is that silhouette shooters for the most part are the best bunch of competitors I've shot with. Everyone I know is more than helpful to new folks. Encouragement is what folks like me like, and the guys that have learned my name and ask me how I'm doing every match inspire me. I shot NRA Highpower for a while, and pretty much lost interest because of the competitive attitude of most shooters I met. If I didn't keep in mind I was there to better my skills and that I was only shooting against my last or average score I found myself getting discouraged quickly. I never got a coool plaque at the local HP match for being fastest in the slow group, but I am really proud of the for B class plaques I have hanging on my wall from the Hassayampa Rod and Gun club I've aqcuired so far!

Someone told me a couple of months ago that they feel people show for a while and go away because it is a tough sport and most don't have the determination to post low scores for the length of time it takes to get to where you post higher scores. Silhouette is harder than it looks, and while it may not be good karma, I think its cool that on a good day I'm not too far behind much better shooters if they are having a rough day.

I am convinced that success in out game is in the hands of the shooter. A custom gun helps to eliminate all the variables but the shooter and I'd suggest anyone get the best equipment that they can afford.......
Encourage us that are there for enjoyment and to better our skills and we'll keep coming back.

Claimer class, while cool at the dirt track on Saturday night is not in my opinion a good way to get new shooters to stick around.

Another point I've found that confidence in one's gun can have a huge effect on my scores. Recently I haven't shot my Mark10D well, and it has just gone downhill from there. I know the gun still shoots as well, just subconsciously I don't have a good vibe with it anymore. If someone takes the gun I am shooting well with just when I do do well in a match wouldn't have me coming back soon!..........just my inexperienced opinion, I could be wrong.

[atomicbrh]

I had a feeling when I started this topic that Dave Imas would eventually be mentioned. Where is Imas to chime in when he is needed?

No thoughts about preventing cheater rifles entered my head when I thought about a claimer rifle class. Only trying to get newbies into the sport cheap and specifying a particular model rifle would like Duckgumbo said just add more rules we did not need.

I too am going to put together a cheap rifle to lend to people. The last time we let a club member try to put five shots through Joel's old gray FWT, we had to replace the firing pin. Somehow the guy was able to work the bolt, eject the fired or unfired cartridge, and load another round without cocking the firing pin. The tip of the firing pin was mutilated after that and needed replacing. Never seen anything like it before. He must have been holding the trigger down the whole time he was working the bolt. Joel and I will never let a person who does not respect equipment shoot our rifles again.

On the other hand, we would without hesitation let any seasoned silhouette competitor try or use our rifles if asked as everyone we have asked to try their rifle did so without hesitation. There is a great deal of respect and trust among the people who shoot this sport on a regular basis. It is a great sport.

Bobby R. Huddleston

[jneihouse]

My 2 cents worth for whatever it's worth.......Dave Imas is a competitor and and true sportsman.....again, my opionion, FWIT.....At the recent Conard Cup, I watched as Jared Perry's rifle went south (Jared shot a 40/40 at last year's nationals, first round) and Dave, as well as myself offered him a rifle to compete with....Jared took Dave up on his offer and shot well. Both are master class shooters......What more can you say about the sport??? Dave may not even read Steelchickens.com....(Apostasy, you say?) but I will remember his sportsmanship much longer that I remember any class or match winner......That is what this sport is about............

Kitty