NRA approved smallbore swingers

[lone ringer]

Shooting SB in the wind is not new to a lot of clubs that have hosted matches for years. People talked about tapping the targets and counting hits, using some clothes pins and even magnets to keep the targets in place long enough to shoot them. At LASC a club in LA, CA. some of the ram's stands have a metal hook built in and it is easy to place the foot of the ram there and no amount of shooting would knock the target down. They could easily build those kinds of hooks at Raton for the targets that get blown of their stands by strong winds.

My suggestion is that rather than quit going to the Nationals at Raton we should write our concerns and dislikes to the Silhouette and offer them solutions to the problems we have. Not going to the Nationals would only show the NRA our lack of interest and if the numbers go down low enough they would have no alternative but to cancel the National matches all together like they will more than likely do with the HP and SB pistol matches because they only were able to attract 19 shooters this year and 13 shooters last year. At least pistol shooters have the IHMSA organization to fall back on and could go to their National matches but us rifle shooters do not have another organization besides the NRA that could run other National matches for us.

[BlauBear]

At the risk of over simplifying, it sounds like someone forgot this this stuff is supposed to be fun. Remind 'em. If they're still forgetful, suggest they go do something they enjoy more. If they won't, that just leaves taking your toys and going home.

[genphideaux]

Lone Ringer,

I am not advocating non attendance at the nationals. I am asking that we the shooters come together as a group and us this venue to discuss, propose and unify our thoughts on the nationals. Then as one voice, forward our thoughts, concerns and wishes for what we want the nationals to be. It is one think to identify something that is broken, it is all together quite different to fix it.

I have felt for several years that the NRA silhouette committee has lost sight of who they serve. We as shooters have gone from customers to simply revenue. We pay our NRA dues then purchase a current scorebook and pay entry fee

[genphideaux]

BlauBear,

I do agree that this sport should be fun and I hope to never lose sight of that, at the same time I feel that the leadership and focus of our sport has gone lacking in some respects.


It is fun to ride a roller coaster, but if not maintained properly and checked for possible defects, they soon become death traps.


I will not as you put it

[BlauBear]

I don't mean to sound like a dilettante, Dawg, so I'll elaborate. Survival and growth do take work, and folks capable of leading and willing to take on the task will inevitably find themselves in some degree of conflict. The litmus test is priority: Are we solving a problem or being stubborn?

Problem solving has been my bread and butter for over thirty years and I've learned to run constant internal and external reality checks on myself and others. When it becomes about someone simply getting their way, I disengage because the real problem has become irrelevant and overcoming the immediate problem probably involves homicide.

[Bob259]

Blaubear we must be in similar areas

A sign on my desk for many years:

Are you helping with the solution
or
Becoming part of the problem....

[BlauBear]

Amen.

I've had to train myself to ignore blame and focus on moving forward. It's very hard sometimes to stay focused.

[genphideaux]

BlauBear,

I agree with your measurement standard as stated. If this is applied to this situation as it has been stated, I do believe you will find that it is motivated to enrich this sport for the whole and not as a personal agenda. To simply disengage as you stated, so as to not cause a homicide incident may be the choice or path of least resistance. This choice in my opinion will only further reinforce the domination tactics that have so far been used to stifle the efforts and wishes of the masses. To take the approach of wait and see has come and gone, we the shooters need to make our concerns heard no matter whose proverbial toes are stepped on. I am sure on some level this will be credited to either treason or the ramblings of an old dawg, but after the actions taken at the nationals this year something must be said.

[BlauBear]

It's always in line to get involved and state a position, I've just developed a distaste for suicide missions. Size it up, state your position in the way most likely to be heard, and if it's a no-win then live to fight another day.

In this case, some legitimate complaints are on the table. If Raton can't or won't address them, save your money, time and energy for a more hospitable event - or create your own. It's their nest to foul or improve. Their choice - not ours. The choice we have is to go or not go.

I badly want to attend Winsboro (sp?) next year, but I'm now reluctant to attend any event in Raton, and that's too bad.

[jneihouse]

Next question is: How are committee members selected? Appointment? It would seem logical to appoint committee members AND leadershiip from an active, proactive, shooting community......I remember the meeting with a committee member in Winnsboro intended to smooth out the Air Rifle National Championship being taken away after it was promised, and even after the Winnsboro Gun Club offered to pay the expenses so there would be no cost to the NRA. With all due respect to the committee member who spoke for the Silhouette Committee, that committee member was unprepared, had no answers, citied only vague "I think it's in the bylaws" type answers. Obviously, he had been sent as the scape goat to take the verbal whipping that was due the powers that be. That being done, nothing was resolved (just like in the competitor's meetings at Nationals) and everything is still status quo.

I'm not advocating anything radical, I just feel like competitive shooters have become more of a bugetary concern than a priority. Nearly every day I get an "emergency" letter from the NRA asking for donations to curb whatever impending crisis is on the horizon. All of them go in the trash. I'll start listening to them when they start listening to me. If they would cut out all the junk mail they could afford to do things right....

Kitty

[Innocent]

I badly want to attend Winsboro (sp?) next year, but I'm now reluctant to attend any event in Raton, and that's too bad.

While I realize that you see these issues as the fault of the the host facility, be aware of the decisions being made by Greg Conner supposedly with input from silhouette committee. At Raton there is not a large group of smallbore silhouette shooters, so direct input from that club is at best very minimal. Do not hesistate to attend events at Raton due to the extreme mismangament of the NRA silhouette and competitions department. But do not forget to recognize that many of these problems occur at other nationals held at other facilities, typically though there is a direct input from a host club that is active in silhouette shooting so it is often well covered by that organization.

As for Winnsoboro, it is a competition that is in a totally different class, the management is handled by professionals and while David McLemore gets significant credit for hosting it, he is (and will very quickly tell you) that there is a tremendous support committee behind him. Anyone will tell you that you can learn a lot on hosting matches from Winnsboro and as the forum has showed us the NRA is not responding to the desires of its customers and main source of support.

BTW Duck I counted at least 6 Winny Gun Club bags on the line at Raton daily.

Mary

[Bob259]

.... Nearly every day I get an "emergency" letter from the NRA asking for donations to curb whatever impending crisis is on the horizon. All of them go in the trash. I'll start listening to them when they start listening to me. If they would cut out all the junk mail they could afford to do things right....

Kitty

Hear, Hear!!!! couldn't agree more. Don't get me wrong I give my fair share to the NRA, but it seems once you contribute they double the request and mail to you.

We all have to be vigilant of our sport and contact our representatives to voice our opinions whether it's in our Local, State or Federal government or for that matter as here the NRA commitee's or board so we are heard as a 'concerned' group.

[lone ringer]

Kitty, Silhouette Committee members are appointed and most of them only meet at the NRA building in Fairfax, VA once a year for two days to discuss the different issues on letters and Emails sent to them and like stated before some of them may be sent to the NRA Nationals competitors meetings to catch the tomatoes. They are not sent there to enforce any rules only to convey to the NRA our feelings and concerns, they are volunteers and may get paid some of their traveling expenses but that is all.

Greg does not have to abide by what the Silhouette Committee wants done only after their recommendations pass the rules and competition meeting the chairman of the Silhouette Committee or Greg's boss may order him to implement and enforce certain rules changes. Greg being retired military and not in the best health does not seem to have the energy and enthusiasm to promote the different silhouette shooting disciplines the way most of us would wish he would. Remember that besides SB and HP he has to deal with BP Cartridge, Cowboy, Hunter's Pistol and Long Range SB and HP Pistol.

I am only trying to explain how things work with Greg and the Silhouette Committee and in no way I am trying to justify or excuse how some things are done. Most of us that have been in the sport for years know that National matches for the most part run a lot better when the full support of the hosting club is behind them which is not the case at Raton.

In the long ago past Nationals jury members would be selected before the matches would start and they would look into problems that would arise during the matches and as a group would make decisions on the spot, maybe its time we request the NRA to let us choose a group of shooters at the Nationals to handle problems like the ones we had with targets blowing down the last day of SB.

[genphideaux]

In this case, some legitimate complaints are on the table. If Raton can't or won't address them, save your money, time and energy for a more hospitable event - or create your own. It's their nest to foul or improve. Their choice - not ours. The choice we have is to go or not go.

I badly want to attend Winsboro (sp?) next year, but I'm now reluctant to attend any event in Raton, and that's too bad.

I would simply like to point out to you that what you are calling Raton is Whittington center and is funded by your NRA dues. So I do believe it is OUR nest and the foul is on our faces.

[Innocent]

I would simply like to point out to you that what you are calling Raton is Whittington center and is funded by your NRA dues. So I do believe it is OUR nest and the foul is on our faces.

Dawg,
The NRA Whittington Center is not funded by our dues to the NRA, in fact only in the last few years has the NRA insisted upon their name being constantly connected to this facility. Please take some time to research the Whittington Center funding and history. My first visit to Whittington I made the mistake of making reference to "the NRA's Range"...boy was I corrected by the employees at the time. I have in the past supported the Whittington center at least twice a year in various fundraisers, and will probably continue to do so but the checks are made out to the Whittington Center and do not go through the NRA. I am disappointed by the Whittington Centers club support of the silhouette group but I am aware that each organization needs directors to guide and light fires under the members. Having talked with various NM natives and citizens there are a number of silhouette match directors in the state but very few or none
that reside in the Raton area.

The facility is great, the local silhouette support is nonexsistant thus Mr Conner is free to act as that director when the competitions are held there.

Tony's remark about having a jury appointed before the match to handle issues is valid. In all other NRA registered matches it is required that a jury be appointed, why does Mr. Conner choose to handle the nationals in his dictatorial way? Worse yet, why do we continue put up with it and not repeatedly direct our requests to his bosses, now that Gilcrist (sp) is gone maybe the new director will at least listen.

Mary Watkins