More Newbie Stuff

NewAZShooter · Post by **NewAZShooter** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:21 pm

Hey folks,

I have noticed that there are about a million little wrinkles to iron out as I begin to learn this surprisingly difficult game. Some are equipment-related. For example, in my case the 3-9 variable on my rifle at my first match was way underpowered. So I switched to a 4-16x 50mm, and a 6-24x44 on the other rifle, and that helped some.

Then I was told that I had to find what ammo my rifles like. That meant a trip to Brunos for about 30 brands of ammo and a bunch of time at the range that brought my ten-shot groups down from about 3 1/2 to 5 inches or more at 100yds to more like 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 inches at the same distance. My Mossy is super old and abused, given to me by an old-timer. When I took it out of the stock the wood beneath the bolt was all mushy from the gun oil over the years. I had to remove wood and glass bed the thing twice to get it to shoot 2.5 MOA.

Not that great, but for now, it's what I have, so I shoot with it. My current rifles even off of a sand bag can only hit the ram swingers 7 or 8 times out of 10 shots. Maybe 9 if I get really lucky, but never ten of ten.

At first, my scope settings were way off. Then I spent a long day at the swingers on a sand bag adjusting scope settings for each animal, only to discover that when I went back to shooting offhand, my bag settings left my POI flying to the right of the animals. I did not know that there would be a difference in those settings from a rest and from offhand. So I missed a bunch of animals that next match due to the off scope settings, even after all that work on the bags. So lame, I know.

The next match (after I fixed that setting issue) I ended up forgetting to adjust the scope from the previous animal, and missed about 8 before I figured that out. Haha. As I said, I'm a newbie!

Now I am too unstable offhand to be sure if my settings are perfect, but I can usually shoot into the low-mid 20's, so I am improving. That 36/60 I shot in my last (5th) match was some kind of crazy fluke shooting with the borrowed Anschutz 64 and its amazing accuracy and trigger.

I have already noticed that my foot placement has a huge effect on my ability to keep on the animals. If my stance is not aligned just right, I have to flex some muscles in my mid-section and twist my torso in order to hold on target left-to-right. But with just a slight foot adjustment, my middle can relax and more of my misses miss high or low instead of wide right or left. It seems that shooting well requires a strange, dynamic combination of rigidity and relaxation that I have not worked out yet.

As I say, it seems there are about a million little things like that to work out. The more of those I can discover and fix, the better I should shoot.

So the point of this is... Does anyone have suggestions for shooting manuals, guide books, instructors, courses or other resources which can help me work my way up the learning curve on these things? I don't really care much about the competition aspect of trying to shoot better than the other guys... I really just want to improve my own scores at this point. For selfish reasons... namely, I have more fun if I hit more animals.

Thanks Again!

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:02 pm

Sounds like you're doing just fine! Remember to work on your mental game and dry fire, go to the range or practice mentally every day.

ajj · Post by **ajj** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:44 am

"The New Position Rifle Shooting" by Pullam.
"Highpower Rifle" by Tubb.
Your instincts are correct. It is very important to be learning the right things because it is hard to unlearn the wrong things.

papabear · Post by **papabear** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:26 am

One last thing you have to learn is how to crossfire with dignity.
First things first:

If you pick up your gun and focused on the animal, and you are rock steady and the crosshair is holding dead center of the animal, THEN 9 times out of 10, you are on the wrong animal. You could be on the wromg sequence or worse, aiming at the wrong bank.

I have heard this one and I believe it is true, "You seldom miss when you crossfire".

And if this happens to you, then you have learned most of the things you have to learn about this sport.

As the shirt says " If this was easy, we will call it golf"

Have fun and shoot straight.

kevinpagano · Post by **kevinpagano** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:37 am

Well put papabear!!

Krasmussen · Post by **Krasmussen** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:30 pm

Another great book you can read is "With Winning in Mind" by Lanny Bassham. This book emphasizes mental rehersal and keeping your 'triad' balanced. All in all this book will give you the mental edge and ability to shoot at the top of your game.

Welcome to the sport,
Kolby

NewAZShooter · Post by **NewAZShooter** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:41 pm

Thanks for all the valued input, folks!

I have crossfired at at least one animal, but I can't say there was much dignity involved. I did miss it, and it actually didn't bother me much. I don't think anyone else saw it, so I just played it cool and lined up on the next animal. My lower powered scopes made it easier to get lined up on the right animal, due to the wider FOV. Now the 24x requires a bit more care in that respect.

I've ordered a few of the texts you kindly suggested, the ones by Bassham and Tubb. But the Pullam text appears to be out of print, and is selling at Amazon for $199.00! A bit out of my price range there. Unless anyone's got a used copy they'd like to sell or lend out at a more reasonable price, I'll have to pass on that one.

Cheers!

lone ringer · Post by **lone ringer** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:05 am

NewAZshooter, I believe that price to be a typo since I googled
the books title and saw it in more than one location selling for $17.95.
Try the champions shooter's supply web site and you will find it there.
http://www.championshooters.com/index-ssl.html
I bought mine from ISS about four years ago.

NewAZShooter · Post by **NewAZShooter** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:50 am

Hey, thanks lone ringer. Found it.

Don't know what was wrong with the Amazon site, but that is quite a difference in price they've got there. I have a love-hate relationship with that Champion's choice website. Love it for all the great equipment I can check out, hate it for the tendency it has to make me want to drain the old wallet. Every time I drop by I end up drooling onto my keyboard over that Anschutz 54.18 and the newer thumbole stock version.

Those Anschutz 54s are the silhouette-shooters pinup models, I guess. Well, let's not get crazy here.

Cheers!

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:58 am

Just a note for those looking for books..
www.bigwords.com does price comparisions for you and includes amazon and many other used book sites.

Mary

Jerry G · Post by **Jerry G** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:02 pm

Assuming you have your parellex set corectly, your point of impact should be the same off of bags as it is standing. The bags need to be placed about the same location you have your hands when you shoot offhand. If you 'limp wrist' shooting in one position and not the other you will have sight problems too. Your POI should be the same for both positions.

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:21 pm

Jerry G wrote:Assuming you have your parellex set corectly, your point of impact should be the same off of bags as it is standing. The bags need to be placed about the same location you have your hands when you shoot offhand. If you 'limp wrist' shooting in one position and not the other you will have sight problems too. Your POI should be the same for both positions.

That is not the case for me, even with both hands in the same position. My body position is different, my hands restrict rifle movement differently than the benchrests, and therefore the gun recoils slightly differently. I shoot a minute and a half higher and left offhand compared to off the bench, and a few of the other silhouette shooters that I know have varying POI offhand versus off the bench, also.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:35 pm

RE: Off the bench vrs. Offhand

Agree w/ Jason .... the rifle will tend to recoil differently from the bench and from position. Also .... many shooters also cant the rifle from position while keeping it level from the bench ... read different POI.

We use the bench to test ammo and get it in the "ballpark" ... in 4-H we have the kids share rifles and in almost every instance each shooter has their own settings ... even if they are shooting the same rifle & ammo ... it is not uncommon for the settings to be several minutes off with those shooters ... I normally see this large of variation on canted rifles.

We usually have multiple sets of names/settings taped on the stocks

timfinle · Post by **timfinle** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:33 pm

POI is definately different for me off the bench than when I am standing off hand. About an inch high off hand with bench settings.

Worker 11811 · Post by **Worker 11811** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:48 pm

Jason wrote:I shoot a minute and a half higher and left offhand compared to off the bench

Have you considered the factor of subconsciously anticipating recoil?
The involunary tightening of the muscles in preparation for recoil often tends to push a shot up and to the left.

Even some of the most seasoned shooters do it. The best ones just compensate for it.

Ever since I was a kid I've shot rifles off a rest of some kind... A bench, a treestump, the hood of my dad's truck... and I've always considered myself a good shot. It wasn't until I started shooting at silhouettes that I realized how hard shooting offhand really is.

That's when I learned that *I* push the shot up and to the left.
I shoot a custom 10/22 with a recoil buffer and a cusioned butt stock. It's virtually guaranteed that I'm not "flinching" at the shot. There's nothing to flinch at. The gun doesn't recoil hardly at all.

It's just that some time, long ago, I learned to "buck up" when I made a shot.

It's a habit I'm only JUST learning to break.