.338 wildcat...

[shakes]

Hello fellas hows everybody been doing? I got a question for you guys out there that have many years of reloading knowledge. I'm probably answering my own ? but better safe than sorry. I just got the new issue of american hunter from the nra and there is an article where the author "wildcats" a .358 WSM. He starts with a 300 win short mag and loads a .358 pill into the case with great results. I'm thinking of geting an elk gun next year cause personaly I would fell more comforatable with something larger than a 7mm, I think it would be more ethical and better for the animal if I used something bigger. Since the 300 and 7mm cases are the same(except for the neck dia.) I was thinking of loading a .338WSM and just putting a new barrel on the action. So if it can be done with a .358, can it be done with a .338 or am I missing something like case presure limits or other forces that I am not knowledgable about.

thanks guys.

[Jerry G]

I believe accurcy is more important than cal. In that light, I believe a well placed shot with anything that puts at least 1,500 ft lb on the target is enough gun to put an elk down. A 338 in the guts will only have you chasing him for miles. Just my opinion.

[1armoured]

The .300 Win Mag is good enough for Elk.

The most popular all-round calibre here for Thar, Red Deer and Wapiti, (excluding the .270) is probably the 7mmRem Magnum,

with the .300 WM being the recommended for the heavier animal.

The main criteria should be how comfortable you feel with the rifle and it's recoil,

and thus how accurate you will be able to place your shot.

If you just want a project to further your sport, and have something personal and special to you, then choosing a well made action in the same size length as the intended, and a bolt face of the same dimensions is basically all you need to think about. (you tend to need deep pockets, though !)
Tinkering with a barrel of same calibre lends itself to the question of rate of twist.
Rebarrelling gives you the opportunity to slect your own rate of twist for the cartridge and projectile.
A good gunsmith will confirm your choice as being practical or not.

cheers,
Sean

[shakes]

Thanks for your concerns and suggestions as to why I dont need a larger caliber, but neither of you answered my question. I guess thats why I dont post that much any more.

[Jim T.]

I read that article too. 75 grains of RL 17 seems high in relation to load data on Alliant website and load data for .325 and .300 WSM. Velocity also seems inflated given RL 17 loads for .338 Winchester Mag. Towsley seems to border on spouting BS sometimes and this may be one of them.

In any case, check out the link below for more info on WSM line and why Winchester never came out with a .338 (let alone a .35).

http://www.chuckhawks.com/325wsm.htm

Two other thoughts:

1) For elk it is hard to beat the high BC and SD of a 7mm 175 grain bullet. It is more than enough for humane and ethical kills of elk with properly placed, well constructed bullets.

2) I believe a 225 grain .338 bullet is superior to a 225 grain .358 bullet of like kind. The superior BC and SD of the .338 caliber will win every time.

In closing, Winchester could not duplicate .338 Win Mag performance from the WSM case and I just don't think RL 17 is that magical (along with a .358 bullet) to make that disparity up. Of course I could be wrong.

PS: If you are set on a 35 caliber you might also want to take a look at the new Ruger cartridge.

[shakes]

Thanks for your answer Jim.

[kevinbear]

Experimenting with wildcats and custom rifles is fun and entertaining but I wish I had all the money back I've wasted doing it!
I don't expect you to take this advice but here it is anyway, SHOOT THE BIGGEST 7MM THAT YOU CAN STAND THE RECOIL FROM. Bullet construction and shot placement are more important than bullet diameter and weight.
I've had my own hunting club for 17 years and have shot 60+ big game animals and been "in on" 200+ so this isn't a theoretical opinion.
My current favorite is a Remington stainless synthetic 700 in 7mm short action ultra mag with 140 ballistic tips for deer and antelope and 140-160 accubonds for anything bigger only because I can't shoot a 7mm ultra mag very well due to it's recoil.
You might try a 7mm wsm, most people can handle it's recoil and they work quite well on all things on this continent.

[shakes]

Thanks Kevin, I've been reading quite alot about the .338 and why no one has made a WSM version. I currently own a 7mmWSM winchester model 70 and am very pleased with it. I thought it would be fun to experiment so thats why I posed the question to see if it would be a "sound" cartridge or if there were drawbacks to it. I think I will try a 160 factory load or handload a 180 pill and see what kind of results I get. I hope everybody can understand why I got a little pissy, I was asking will this work and you always wind up getting a ton of responses why you shouldnt do it , its all personal opinion "you don't need anything bigger". Thats not what I asked. I know that "experimenting" can get expensive but if i have the funds to do it so what, give me some technical data as to why it wont work and there is no advantage to the route I'm going down. thanks to all who answered my ? with some sort of data and not opinion you get a gold star

[kevinbear]

338 is a good choice as opposed to the 35 which I've done most of experimenting with, because of the wide range of velocities from 35 factory rounds matching the appropriate cartridge to bullet to game can be difficult.

[1armoured]

Maybe you just had a bad hair day.

I didn't quite understand your question, so gave a generalised answer, to cover what I thought you were on about.

Makes one wonder why we do it !

[kevinbear]

I was chatting with a prominent silhouette shooter one day about elk hunting and he mentioned that he was using a 30-378 Weatherby. I asked him if they were stunned when he makes a good hit on one like I've seen when shooting antelope with a 264 WM, to my suprise he said no. He's one of the top shooters in the country and isn't full of B.S., he said a 8mm remington mag does as well as anything. In his experience elk aren't normally capable of being shocked, don't know if thats what your looking for or not.
My inclination would be to go with .338 remington ultramag.

[Jim Beckley]

I am no real big Elk hunter, but when I started shooting silhouettes there was a guy that was shooting and he said that him and his brother used to guide in Colorado, he told me that he had seen them shot with just about everything that exits a barrel and he had only seen one that dropped in its tracks. I did clip a cow in the spine once with a .308 Win 180gr Partition, she went down like the carpet was ripped out from under her, but with that shot anything would have.

[kevinbear]

A shot right where the neck meets the head works quite nice as well.
I like short actions better than anything but you run into pressure and seating depth problems when you go above 30 caliber.
Like I said previously try a 338 remington ultramag in a 700 stainless synthetic. Check your fillings after every shot!

[Bob Mc Alice]

Shakes...what ever choice you make I am confident it will work for you. Just put the bullet where the animal lives.....the lungs.

Both Sara and I have shot our share of elk, both bulls and mostly cows. They are not hard to put down. A well placed shot to the chest is always fatal. We hunt mostly in open country , so keeping an eye on where they fall is pretty easy. One time Sara hit a big cow broadside at about 200 yds. with her Featherweight .243......light yes...but was not expecting a cow to cross her path when deer hunting.We were talking on radios and I convinced her try and fill her tag. From a rest off her pack she easily put a 95gr. Nosler ballistic tip over the front leg into the chest. I was watching thru binoculars from a distance when she fired. That cow acted as if stung by a bee......took a few steps....put her head down a little. Less than three minutes later and 100 feet from the hit, she crumbled, DOA. Most of that Nosler took out the lungs and lodged under the farside hide. So, the .243 will work if it's all you have.....but definately not high on my list of recommended cartridges. Go with a big fat magnum something. All that long range bone smashing power is not a bad thing. Yeah...a .338 RUM sounds good. Me.....I will stick with my "ought-six".

[RBriscoe]

If you do not expect to be making especially long shots, there is a comparatively low recoil cartridge, the .338-08, which has been standardized as the .338 Federal. Stepping up slightly is the .338-06 which has been around for quite some time.

If you want to burn more powder, the .338 Mag should be able to do that.

Rick