Cowboy Silhouette loads

[ppkny]

Glen, I know I'm just learning about loading but doesn't the rules say no hollow points? Please clarify. You guys have been a great help. I should be up and running with my 30-30 and 357/38 reloading by the end of the week.
ppkny

[glen ring]

ppkny

I think the rules say round nose or flat nose and this bullet certainly has a flat nose. I don't think that Hollowpoints are illegal, I hope! This is the only jacketed bullet that I've found that will shoot a decent group in my wife's 30-30. If you find something in the rules that makes the JHP illegal, please clue me in . The last thing I'd want to do is break a rule.

[Jason]

Gotta be flat or round point. A flat point with a hole in it is fine. The rule was put there to keep people from putting pointy bullets in their loads and having those pointy bullets sitting against the primers of the round in front of them in the tube magazine.

[glen ring]

Thanks Jason. I thought I was Ok, but a guy can't be too careful.

[Another Dang 9]

One thing I should have mentioned is that some 110 gr 30 carbine bullets are .307 dia. not .308 dia. Check what you buy before you load. ;)

[Another Dang 9]

45 deg outside so I went to the range today to test the new 110 gr loads. had a few set backs thou. I loaded the rounds to the recomended OAL but they were set way to long. bullets jamed the lands hard. even the speer bullets were hard to close on. will have to load to the second groove not the chanal groove. will reload and test again with new OAL.

[durant7]

Why is everyone shooting jacketed bullets? I don't think true "cowboys" with iron sights were shooting Speers? I see no mention of cast bullets? Up here in frugal yankee land if your gun still still has rifling left there is no reason to use a copper bullet. That said, what are folks using for cast bullets? Are there any shooters using cast bullets? And if yes, what's working?

[Jason]

Why is everyone shooting jacketed bullets? I don't think true "cowboys" with iron sights were shooting Speers?

I don't think cowboys were shooting 24" barrel "cowboy special" rifles and aftermarket trigger parts and target sights with adjustable knobs, either. Your point?

[Another Dang 9]

Jud, you need to talk to cast master Chuck T. or Skip H. I'm sticking to my copper. And the last time I rode a horse was when I was 5 at the local stop & shop and it cost a dime for 2 min.

[glen ring]

Durant7
I use cast bullets in my 38-55, 30-30, and .357 only if they are accurate. If a jacketed bullet shoots better I use it.
I think Cowboys of a couple of generations ago would carry AR-15s and a Colt 1911 with an illuminated sight on both, if they would have been available. A lot of cowboys I know check their cattle on 4-wheelers instead of horses.

[durant7]

Wow, looks like a rough crowd. I don't know if it is the proximity to CT or what but there are more old, well used lever guns up in NH than you can imagine. No blueing and likely not much rifling. But they show up and get shot. Against my long standing rule to not shoot anything center fire, two boxes of factory ammo was put in one hand and an old Marlin lever in the other and I was instructed to go shoot. The owner of the gun told me where to hold because there ain't nothin else to do. The gun was over 100 years old. It did it's job if I did mine. Managed a 31 for my first time through and I was hooked.

Fast forward and I see those old guns with 26" barrels are a tad spendy. Nice ones are a tad more than just spendy. Sadly I had to settle on a "new" 336CB for which I will catch heck. After I shot a buddies I dicided 24" will have to do as it seemed like the only affordable compromise. That gun shoots cast bullets better than factory loads. 1.25" vs. 4" with factory loads at 100m. Can't see any reason to pay for jacketed bullets when cast works that well. Just wondering what folks were using. Right now it looks like the 31141 or 311041 will be the bullet of choice but I've not experimented that much. 311466 I can only get in .309 and they are just not fat enough. 311041 in .311 work great. Don't want to turn this into a bullet casting forum but that is all part of the fun of cowboy IMO. I figure there must be someone out there with a good cast bullet solution for the 30-30.

Thanks!

JD

[Another Dang 9]

Jud have you talked to Chuck or Skip? I think even John L. has a few loads for lead. And we all know how well John shoots with the antiques he digs up. The marlin is a great gun and as for keeping the faith and spirt of the game goes I've seen guys who shoot master with SS and laminate wood guns. Its all about the score baby!

[txairshooter]

125gr on rams.....not likely. Some say a 150 gr on rams out of a 30-30 will work, but I've rung several. 170s seem to be the ticket, with 150s or 125s on the shorter lines.

[Another Dang 9]

This summer I was shooting factory 170 gr. win ammo and it rang a few rams. Most likely due to poor target placement but it happens.

[durant7]

Grain weight of the bullet is only half the story. I'd rather have a 150g bullet at 1950fps than a 170g bullet as 1400fps. It is worth another 70 ft lbs of energy at 200y.

So, that begs the question. How many ft lbs do you need at 200y? Sure, variables galore. Animal weight, where you hit it, how well it is set on the "just enough so it doesn't tip backward" rule. And if your stands are rigid or a little mushy.

All that said, I am told that with an animal set correctly a cast 311465 @ 1950 fps will take a ram. That bullet is only 122g! I estimate that to be 388 ft lbs at 200y. I used a BC of .163 for those who want to check it out. Since we're in 2 ft of snow on the 200y line and the animals don't come out until after mud season, I have to do all this from an armchair.

If I were to go to a match tomorrow the current cast bullet of choice is a 311041 which is a 173g bullet. The most accurate load so far has it going at 1392 with a BC of .220. Gives me 409 ft lbs at 200y. The million $$$ question, will that be enough?

I used http://www.jbmballistics.com for my calculations. I'd be interested in heaing what others are getting. I guess if you don't have a chronagraphy it is guess work. I did so that is why I ran the numbers.

I guess if you're using a SS laminated 30-30 you better not be under 35 animals! There would be too much torture at the campfire to lose to a 100 year old gun shooting cast bullets with fixed sights! Rimfire...rimfire....rimfire....return from the dark side....must return from the dark side...