RT Silhouette Stocks

[kevinbear]

My 2 cents worth, on my first couple of custom rifle projects I was very disappointed because I felt that the gunsmiths had not completed the work to my expectations, these were totally verbal communications. I no longer get work done in this fashion!!!! Everything is in writing or email and preferably both along with phone calls before the work begins, the latest gun project was my 6x47 by Douglas, the gun was exactly as I specified, no surprises or disappointment's. Although I've never done it in the past photo's of the gun prior to shipment wouldn't be a bad idea either.
To use those overused clichés from the business world, this is a learning moment and what's the take away from this.

[Jim T.]

Joel:

You must think we are a bunch of country bumpkin, idiots!

I just received a McMillan stock that they put pillars in and there is no bedding slop like the kind on your stock.

You might want to stop the backhoe before the hole you are digging gets so big you can't get out. I encourage everyone to go back and look at Dave's pictures to see if Joel's story about the bedding material being solely there because of bedding the pillars holds any water. I for one do not understand why you place bedding compound along the sides of the stock where they could only come in contact with the action and have no, none, nada, proximity to the location of the pillars!!! How do you get clay, bedding compound on the action, bolt, action screws, if you are only bedding the pillars??????

Your entire story about the FFL makes no sense. What Dave did is done all the time. Since many individuals that have an FFL's are not gunsmiths, and since you only release your unfinished stocks to "gunsmiths," how did you ascertain that Dave's FFL was a gunsmith (which I believe he is not).

I also did a little Google search on "Sturtevant Arms" and "Bills Gun Shop" and found very little in the way of testimonials, pictures, or discussion. When I went to your website, I found a lot of high prices but not one close up of your completed rifles or your custom actions. Just for your information, when I recently was shopping for actions I was able to find very detailed close up pictures of every one (Borden, Defiance, BAT, Stiller, Surgeon, Kelbly, etc) that I was considering. Not being able to read (independent) about or see a close up image of a product is a real red flag.

Finally, coming onto this forum and impugning Dave Bonner's integrity and reputation with nonsensical excuses and borderline (if not outright) lies will not restore your reputation or make any one of us want to do business with you any time soon.

Jim

[shooterxtc]

I don't know how everyone else feels but if i had to have a licensed gun smith do all my stock work I probably would not be shooting.Selling stocks to gunsmiths only is a real insult to those of us who choose to do our own work.I guess I will continue making my own.(Do I really need a license to build a accurate rifle? )

[Merlin]

I would hope that no one insults anyone here. To nice a Forum for such as that...... Not really sure as there have been SO MANY different things said here but ...I thought the main reference to the gunsmith/FFL thing was that a discount was given as the seller thought/or was told that the stock was going to a gunsmith for more work. The reason gunsmiths and FFLs are commonly given discount pricing is to allow them to make something on the transaction - which helps them to keep their doors open. It (seems to me) that if a dealer/manufacturer did think that the product would be "touched" by a gunsmith that the product would be further massaged/worked on and finished prior to the final buyer actually getting the product.

Feeling are obviously running high on this thread and, If I had a Moderator button, I would lock this thread down for a couple of weeks and hope that tempers would have time to cool a bit and hopefully prevent needless animosity and permanent hard feeling......

[Jim T.]

I would hope that no one insults anyone here. To nice a Forum for such as that...... Not really sure as there have been SO MANY different things said here but ...I thought the main reference to the gunsmith/FFL thing was that a discount was given as the seller thought/or was told that the stock was going to a gunsmith for more work. The reason gunsmiths and FFLs are commonly given discount pricing is to allow them to make something on the transaction - which helps them to keep their doors open. It (seems to me) that if a dealer/manufacturer did think that the product would be "touched" by a gunsmith that the product would be further massaged/worked on and finished prior to the final buyer actually getting the product.

Feeling are obviously running high on this thread and, If I had a Moderator button, I would lock this thread down for a couple of weeks and hope that tempers would have time to cool a bit and hopefully prevent needless animosity and permanent hard feeling......

The "gunsmith/FFL thing" is the smoke screen you could not see thru. The FFL in this case was clearly not a "gunsmith" and anyone with any inkling of Silhouette knowledge would know this.

The fact of the matter is that Dave's stock was clearly "bedded" (to Sturtevant Arms standards I assume) in any sense of the word, and Joel Sturtevant's story that it was not is plain BS.

Furthermore, if you advertise that you can produce a "raw carbon fiber" stock then that is what you need to live up to. As one who has experience with carbon fiber parts on various bicycles, I KNOW that there is no way you "REPAIR" or "FIX" the issues with Dave's stock so it clearly shows proper carbon fiber weave patterns throughout the entire stock! It either comes out of the mold correctly or it does not!

In closing, I suspect there will not be "needless animosity and permanent hard feeling" if Joel produces pictures (preferably many and close up) of a Pharr Silhouette stock in FINISHED raw carbon state with pillars and properly bedded in the next few days as he promised. He might also want to include the price of this specimen as he states it will be well in excess of $550.

[cedestech]

How much did the OP pay for the entire transaction?

[Jim T.]

How much did the OP pay for the entire transaction?

You might want to read his posts carefully to find out.

[cedestech]

How much did the OP pay for the entire transaction?

You might want to read his posts carefully to find out.

Opps, forgot it was in there....

[Bob259]

Yes, I'd like to see some pictures as well. Do you have any that were done and left in carbon fiber alone and not painted as well?

If anyone has gotten one can you also post pictures and comment on it Vs the Robertson's we used to get.

Thanks in advance.

Well back on December 29th I had asked for pictures and if anyone had gotten one. Here it is February 21st and still no pictures and the one person that did get one got what I'd call less than a professional product and from the notes and pictures Mr. Bonner posted I'd say a fine example of who not to use for ANYTHING. True professionals are PROUD of their work and would have pictures to post and rave reviews from satisfied customers... I see none of that from Sturtevant Arms and as the saying goes buyer beware with these guys. I think the stock on the 2x4 gun we all know is of better quality then these.

[Jim T.]

Dave specifically requested an unfinished stock as it comes from the mold. He did not want a finished stock. Bill does not use forums and I do not frequent steelchickens regularly but dropped by this evening on a whim. If he had requested a finished stock it would have non of the cosmetic flaws to the exterior of the stock.

I would be more than happy to share pictures of completed stocks with the community and will post them in the next couple of days.

Also I will note that Dave tried to reach Bill on his cell phone which is not given to customers because he lives outside of cell coverage in the country. But because he offered to do a favor for this gentleman and deliver his rifle to him because he refused to ship it he had his cell number to make contact . The messages Dave left were not retrieved until three days after he left them by which time he had already contacted the shop during business hours.

Again Dave was trying to save every penny he could and did not want to pay for a finished stock he also included an FFL from a friend to get a dealer discount but he did not have any intention of having this dealer involved in the transaction. That is rather dishonest at best. Again this stock was supposed to be going to a gunsmith for the work to be completed. We would never have sold this stock let alone given Dave a dealer price on it if he had been honest in his intentions. So when you ask for incomplete work and claim that someone else will be finishing it..... you should expect exactly what you ask for.

So it has been almost 2 months since the Sturtevant boys promised pictures. I wonder if they got bedding compound on the camera lense????

[kevinbear]

The pictures got lost at the wallymart developing department.

[Bob259]

I believe we have seen enough of their fine 'handy work' to know not to use them.

[Jerry G]

Don't be so grumpy Bob. Be happy. Marry an ugly woman and be happy the rest of your life!!!!