More New Shooter Questions

[TomJ]

I've finally reached the point in my life where I can rationalize and afford buying a "real good" rifle (I''ve ordered an Anschutz 1712). I've read posts, here and on the Rimfire forum, about torque and am convinced that purchasing a torque wrench is in order. Is the Wheeler FAT wrench adequate for tightening bedding and scope mounting screws? Should I/do I need to replace the original slotted screws with hex screws from J&P?
I've never mounted a scope before and would like to learn how to "properly" do so, it's probably a good thing to know how to do. What tools would I need to make sure the scope is level with the bore, the cross hairs are square, and scope is centered (meaning shimming the scope so that it is centered in the range of height adjustments)? Is this doable orr would I be better off, since this is my first time, having someone familiar with setting up SB silhouette rifles mount it? I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks, Tom

[cedestech]

Yes to the wheeler torque wrench, no to replacing the screws unless you want to, scope mounting is trial and error. Hard part is figuring out ring height that works FOR YOU. Way it works for me is to mount rings, lay scope in and put on ring caps, lightly/evenly tighten with just the bit, finger tight so you can move the scope but not scratch it. Find a target (can be anything to aim out outside the house through a window) and first move the scope forward and back slowly while looking through it. There will be a point when exit pupil is correct and the image will be it's brightest. Note that position and then start aiming and figure out how much cant feels good (almost everyone has cant in their scope). Note this position and then with the fat wrench set to 10 inch pounds tighten the ring caps evenly. Get some spent cases or what ever you want to use to dry fire and start dry firing working on NPOA. You can play with scope position and probably will till you figure out what feels good. Ring height works the same but unfortunately if you want more or less cheek weld you have to buy new rings. FInd a friend with a lot of rifles, he'll have a lot of rings and you should be able to experiment. The depending on the type of ring I tighten them 10 - 15inch pounds on the bases. I also like to evenly space the rings to the turrets if possible.

Good luck.

[cedestech]

Just saw the shimmiing part of your question. You will probably have to shim the rear of the scope to get the elevation to work in the middle of the range. A coke can should be about right. I prefer Burris SIgnature rings when possible. With 0 to +/- 20* inserts you can put the elevation of the scope turret zero'd in the lower third of the adjustment and the windage adjusted to the middle and then use the inserts to "zero" the scope. Plus there is no way they can leave marks. Rings and insert kit are around $75 but well worth it. Medium tip off should work fine on a stock 1712 unless you have high cheek bones or a fat face. I use high but both my SB guns are in stocks with the comb as high as the rules allow. Believe the stock 1712 stock comb is 14" or so lower.

[Jerry G]

If you are using standard scope mounts, 2 layer of a beer can for a 22 are just about right. 3 layers on a HP rig will ger you out to 1000 yards. Alway use a torque wrench to tighten the rings on your scope.

[TomJ]

You guys are probably going to be sorry that I found out about this site with all the questions I've been asking, But here goes a few more.
1) Are there a video or are there instructions detailing how to properly mount a scope?
2)What tools would you suggest? I don't want to go crazy, but am willing to purchase tools that will help made the job easier and do it correctly/precisely, e.g., levels what kind?
3)Shimming is for whatever reason confusing, I read about using beer can shims????? Would using either Burris Zee rings with the plastic inserts or Talley rings eliminate the need for shims? Are there disadvantages to using either the Burris or Talley rings?
Hopefully I'm not being too much of a pain in the back-side, I want to learn. Thanks, Tom

[cedestech]

You guys are probably going to be sorry that I found out about this site with all the questions I've been asking, But here goes a few more.
1) Are there a video or are there instructions detailing how to properly mount a scope?
2)What tools would you suggest? I don't want to go crazy, but am willing to purchase tools that will help made the job easier and do it correctly/precisely, e.g., levels what kind?
3)Shimming is for whatever reason confusing, I read about using beer can shims????? Would using either Burris Zee rings with the plastic inserts or Talley rings eliminate the need for shims? Are there disadvantages to using either the Burris or Talley rings?
Hopefully I'm not being too much of a pain in the back-side, I want to learn. Thanks, Tom

You shim to get the scope to work in the middle of it's adjustment range. Where it is the most consistent. Burris is great but plenty of people use BKL, Leupold or custom set ups.

Scope set up is HIGHLY personal. There is no right way. If you pick up 10 AAA/Master shooters rifles you will find 10 different set ups. All you can do is experiment till you find out what works for you.

You don't need to level your scope. Most people shoot with a bit of cant in theirs to facilitate their own personal hold or cheek weld. Leveling is required for long distance with unknown distances. We are shooting 4 known distances and even with severe cant the windage error is minor.

[dustinflint]

Tom,

First, ask as many questions as you want or need to. That is what this site is for. Now, to your questions:

(1) I am sure there are videos online showing how to mount a scope. If you want to watch one, I would go to YouTube and search for "how to mount a scope." However, it is not too difficult and if you continue shooting silhouette you will be an expert at it in no time.

(2) I don't think you need any special tools other than a set of Allen wrenches and maybe a screw driver although a torque wrench is never a bad idea.

(3) You need to either shim your scope or use some rings that will shim it for you. The Burris rings are great but so are BKL and others. Any good rings will work. I suggest using something that will bolt directly to the 11mm dovetail on top of your rifle instead of having to convert it to a Weaver-style mount for the Burris rings. Either way, it will work fine and you should go with what you have or what you like.

(3) shimming is not a big deal. Let's go through the steps of mounting the scope:

First, mount the rings on the rifle. Use either the dovetail or whatever mounts you need for your rings. Mount them about midway on the front and rear rails and tighten them down nice and snug but not too tight. Just good solid finger tension will do unless you have a torque wrench.

Next, unscrew the tops of each ring and remove them. If you are using rings that need shims, cut three rectangular shims out of a Coke can about 1/2 inch long and 1/4 inch wide. Stack the 3 shims on top of each other and place them on the bottom of the rear ring. A trick is to then tape them down to the ring with some electrical tape. This will keep them in place and keep the edges of the shims from scratching your scope.

Once you have the top of the rings removed and the shims in place, set the scope on top of the open rings and place the tops of the rings on top of the scope. Tighten the rings down just enough that the scope stays in place when you handle the rifle but you can easily twist the scope side to side and move it fire and aft with your hand. Make sure that the spaces on either side of the rings are about equal so that one side is not significantly tighter than the other.

Now you need to set the eye relief: put on your vest or whatever you normally wear to shoot on, close your eyes and pick your rifle up to your shoulder and get very comfortable holding it in your normal position with your eyes closed. Once you're comfortable, open your eyes and adjust the scope fore and aft until you have a full field of view in the scope when you are comfortably holding the rifle. You want to set the rifle up for you and not have to adjust yourself to the rifle when you shoot.

Next, level the scope: turn the scope slightly whichever way you need to turn it so that the vertical crosshair is perfectly up and down when you hold the rifle. It is not important that the scope is leveled, only that it is leveled when you hold it so that the crosshairs line up with your cant (if you cant the rifle). In other words, you don't want the crosshairs to look crooked when you are holding the rifle even though they may look a bit crooked when you put it on the bench.

Once your eye relief is set and the scope looks level when you hold the rifle, tighten down the rings making sure that you get them good and snug but not too tight and making sure that you tighten each side of the rings equally.

The scope is now mounted and you can sight everything in. Keep in mind that as you get more experience, your position may change or you may decide to change rings to get a different scope height. I personally like my scope to be very high but some folks like the scope low and some like it somewhere in between. That is a personal preference thing that you are going to have to experiment with and probably change things several times along the way. That's just part of getting everything fit exactly right to you.

Good luck. Ask more questions if you have them.

Dustin

[cedestech]

I suggest using something that will bolt directly to the 11mm dovetail on top of your rifle instead of having to convert it to a Weaver-style mount for the Burris rings.
Dustin

Burris makes tip offs for rim fire, they come with 2 jaw sizes for 3/8 or 11mm grooves and zero inserts, so you have to buy the rings then buy a insert kit which is another $25. Also for Anschutz and probably a couple others you have to grind, file or mill the center of the dovetail to clear the rounded recievers. ;) I use all on both of my rifles, one stock is a McMillian Silhouette and the other is a Phar.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-airg ... rings.html

[OldRanger]

You don't always have to shim. I'd mount it up first without shims and see where you are. Mine is about 5 clicks off of perfectly centered (which is fine) with no shims. As long as you are not using the very top or bottom of your available scope range you should be ok. And if I had to shim, I think I'd go with the Burris rings and inserts....

[Jerry G]

I would not even waste my time mounting before shimming. You WILL bre close to the top of your scope travel if you don't shim. Not a good deal.

[TomJ]

Dustin - I've learned the hard way (mistakes) to measure 2 maybe 3 or 4x before cutting. Three shims + electrical tape would raise the rear ring quite a bit, what is the chance of bending the scope due to the height differential between the two rings?

Cedestech - what do you mean when you said about the Zee rings "you have to grind, file or mill the center of the dovetail to clear the rounded recievers." Don't the Burris rings fit the Anschutz dovetail?

Your comments have been a big help getting me comfortable mounting the scope and setting up the rifle, now I need some addutuibak help with the shimming. Thanks, Tom

[cedestech]

Cedestech - what do you mean when you said about the Zee rings "you have to grind, file or mill the center of the dovetail to clear the rounded recievers." Don't the Burris rings fit the Anschutz dovetail?

The top of a 54 action is rounded, the bottom (or top depending on how you look at it) of the Burris rings is flat. They need to be relieved for clearance so the jaws engauge the dovetail grooves completely. You can do it with a file or dremmel or if you have a Stieger nearby they will use their Bridgeport....

[Szumi]

The fat wrench is a pretty good tool for the price. I ran mine across a calibrator at work when new and it was well with in 3%. I should try it again now that I've used it a few years.