Run the numbers Raton
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Innocent
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Run the numbers Raton
I am starting this subject as the comments on the Nationals at Raton are interesting but scattered.
I did not compete in the high power version but I am posting some numbers to consider when discussing the SB.
Tony Tello is correct in stating that out issues with some of the things that the "NRA" (Greg Conner) did need to be addressed with possible solutions offered.
The Dawg is correct in stating that the adapation of rules to suit the match director is politely put BS.
Without question the scoring on the swingers caused several to gain or loose points...very poor decision and handled in a typically less than professional manner by Greg Conner not the first time I or many others have had less than professional decisions made by him.
The competitiors meeting was very typical of every one that I have attended, not listening to the shooters, Laying blame on the upper level of NRA for any complaints from the shooters such as the desire for trophies instead of NRA award points.
I, like Col. Wigger have more trophies than I care to think about, or store, buy that does not mean that I wish to eliminate trophies as the awards. Col Wiggers opinion shut down any conversations on the awards and that is unfortunate as he is only one person.
Now for something to consider.....
Assuming 100 paid competitors in the Smallbore matches (juniors typically shoot for free due to states and regional matches) there should be $14,000.00 in entry fees.
Payment of 'volunteers' scorekeepers, line officers... at $30 per person per day by 30 (1 scorer for every 2 shooters) $2700.00.
Trophies (based on Greg's statement that they cost $14.00 each) totalling 80 for the two guns each match times three days, inculding the aggreagates is $1680. ( Do not forget that the NRA buys bulk trophies for all their disciplines).
This gives us 14000-4380=$9620 in which to pay the target setters, range fees to Whittington, and for the THREE NRA paid officials, Greg Conner Pat French and Jon??, as well as provide the fantastic NRA award points to the shooters.
My son and I between us placing 5 times in the top ten in our classes bought home a total of 24 NRA award points. So as you can see not a lot of outlay on the NRA award points.
This does not touch on the fact that Greg and Pats salary already comes out of the NRA budget supported by the competitiors.
I have run matches off and on since 1979, there is some extreme budget mismangament occurring and the results are discouraging to the competitors as a result the numbers of competitors are declining. It is extremely clear that the silhouette committee is not making any headway with the bureaucracy of the NRA and Greg Conner has not changed. (Yes Kitty by his own words he is what he called himself).
As I see it we have several choices, one to voice ourselves to the upper level of management with the NRA (don't bother trying to talk to Greg...it took 6 certified letters to the NRA, the last to Charlton Heston for me to recieve a trophy from the first nationals I attended at Raton in the 1990's. Didn't receive there due to damaged merchandise and it was 14 months later that I did get it. To date I am still aware of at least on fellow competitor that never recieved his from that same match.) and try to make it clear that we need to be heard, treated and considered as a customer to the NRA.
Another consideration is to form our own sanctioning body or approach USA shooting for their support.
Mary Watkins
I did not compete in the high power version but I am posting some numbers to consider when discussing the SB.
Tony Tello is correct in stating that out issues with some of the things that the "NRA" (Greg Conner) did need to be addressed with possible solutions offered.
The Dawg is correct in stating that the adapation of rules to suit the match director is politely put BS.
Without question the scoring on the swingers caused several to gain or loose points...very poor decision and handled in a typically less than professional manner by Greg Conner not the first time I or many others have had less than professional decisions made by him.
The competitiors meeting was very typical of every one that I have attended, not listening to the shooters, Laying blame on the upper level of NRA for any complaints from the shooters such as the desire for trophies instead of NRA award points.
I, like Col. Wigger have more trophies than I care to think about, or store, buy that does not mean that I wish to eliminate trophies as the awards. Col Wiggers opinion shut down any conversations on the awards and that is unfortunate as he is only one person.
Now for something to consider.....
Assuming 100 paid competitors in the Smallbore matches (juniors typically shoot for free due to states and regional matches) there should be $14,000.00 in entry fees.
Payment of 'volunteers' scorekeepers, line officers... at $30 per person per day by 30 (1 scorer for every 2 shooters) $2700.00.
Trophies (based on Greg's statement that they cost $14.00 each) totalling 80 for the two guns each match times three days, inculding the aggreagates is $1680. ( Do not forget that the NRA buys bulk trophies for all their disciplines).
This gives us 14000-4380=$9620 in which to pay the target setters, range fees to Whittington, and for the THREE NRA paid officials, Greg Conner Pat French and Jon??, as well as provide the fantastic NRA award points to the shooters.
My son and I between us placing 5 times in the top ten in our classes bought home a total of 24 NRA award points. So as you can see not a lot of outlay on the NRA award points.
This does not touch on the fact that Greg and Pats salary already comes out of the NRA budget supported by the competitiors.
I have run matches off and on since 1979, there is some extreme budget mismangament occurring and the results are discouraging to the competitors as a result the numbers of competitors are declining. It is extremely clear that the silhouette committee is not making any headway with the bureaucracy of the NRA and Greg Conner has not changed. (Yes Kitty by his own words he is what he called himself).
As I see it we have several choices, one to voice ourselves to the upper level of management with the NRA (don't bother trying to talk to Greg...it took 6 certified letters to the NRA, the last to Charlton Heston for me to recieve a trophy from the first nationals I attended at Raton in the 1990's. Didn't receive there due to damaged merchandise and it was 14 months later that I did get it. To date I am still aware of at least on fellow competitor that never recieved his from that same match.) and try to make it clear that we need to be heard, treated and considered as a customer to the NRA.
Another consideration is to form our own sanctioning body or approach USA shooting for their support.
Mary Watkins
Proud member of SNOSS. I earned mine!
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
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Innocent
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Kitty,
Included in that "anything" is entries to the NRA nationals. I had intended to leave my "award points" with Greg and have him keep track of them for me and apply them to my entry next year, but kind hearted souls chose to pick them up for me and deliver them directly as Greg chooses not have contact with me if he can help it. I'm sure that they would probably have been mailed at some point but I'm not sure why I want to keep track of 8 points myself plus my sons for the convience of the NRA. I am the customer aren't I? Seems as though my check for entry was cashed within 3 days of being mailed.
Mary
Included in that "anything" is entries to the NRA nationals. I had intended to leave my "award points" with Greg and have him keep track of them for me and apply them to my entry next year, but kind hearted souls chose to pick them up for me and deliver them directly as Greg chooses not have contact with me if he can help it. I'm sure that they would probably have been mailed at some point but I'm not sure why I want to keep track of 8 points myself plus my sons for the convience of the NRA. I am the customer aren't I? Seems as though my check for entry was cashed within 3 days of being mailed.
Mary
Proud member of SNOSS. I earned mine!
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
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BlauBear
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I'm struggling with how to phrase this observation because I can see several immediate issues.
Mary identified the central issue, though: Customer Service. It sounds like the NRA views the Silhouette program as a favor they do for us instead of an opportunity to serve their customers. Instead of customers, we are seen as needy burdens.
If this is accurate, is there a way to change that perception? We are the NRA, not herd animals.
Mary identified the central issue, though: Customer Service. It sounds like the NRA views the Silhouette program as a favor they do for us instead of an opportunity to serve their customers. Instead of customers, we are seen as needy burdens.
If this is accurate, is there a way to change that perception? We are the NRA, not herd animals.
"If the America people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currencies, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their prosperity" - TJ
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CWS
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Mary... so you're saying you traveled a long way and spent a lot of money to get mad. Again. We quit doing that 10 years ago... and it's rumored that I'm a bit slow. Raton is a beautiful place that would be a great environment for someone to put on a great silhouette match. That was the original lure for us. It became readily apparent that it wasn't going to happen under the current administration. Until we get 'regime change' , we'll just stick with the quality shoots... David's, Chuck's, and Chicken's... I don't have to spend a lot of money to get mad. I can do that at home.
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Innocent
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Bill,
I did not get mad, aggrevated with the left side line officer a little, but only because he was unecessarily picking on a spotter for the competitor beside me. As for Greg, I know he is only 'doing his job', blaming his attitiude on the military or ill health is just that, an excuse, he is a salaried person and if he is not doing his job correctly then he should be replaced. As Blau Bear says we are not herd animals, we are the NRA. Currently the way the NRA elections are set up there is no way to break the clique, so if enough of us will continue to file objections to the hired help either they will quit or eventually we will get some positive results.
Kitty,
I do not want NRA award points, I didn't like them when I shot position and I still do not like them. So having Greg or anyone else keep track of them is my way of expressing that opinion.
Jason,
Yes the Conard Cup is among the better run matches, not quite the sense of humor that shows up in the Southern matches but then everyone knows the South will rise again.
Blau Bear,
At every nationals there is a suggestion survey that you can fill out and turn in. My thoughts are to turn them into the competitions department head with copies to your state representative from the NRA as well as multiple board members that you might have some contact with. Greg has a boss and his boss has a boss....
Mary
I did not get mad, aggrevated with the left side line officer a little, but only because he was unecessarily picking on a spotter for the competitor beside me. As for Greg, I know he is only 'doing his job', blaming his attitiude on the military or ill health is just that, an excuse, he is a salaried person and if he is not doing his job correctly then he should be replaced. As Blau Bear says we are not herd animals, we are the NRA. Currently the way the NRA elections are set up there is no way to break the clique, so if enough of us will continue to file objections to the hired help either they will quit or eventually we will get some positive results.
Kitty,
I do not want NRA award points, I didn't like them when I shot position and I still do not like them. So having Greg or anyone else keep track of them is my way of expressing that opinion.
Jason,
Yes the Conard Cup is among the better run matches, not quite the sense of humor that shows up in the Southern matches but then everyone knows the South will rise again.
Blau Bear,
At every nationals there is a suggestion survey that you can fill out and turn in. My thoughts are to turn them into the competitions department head with copies to your state representative from the NRA as well as multiple board members that you might have some contact with. Greg has a boss and his boss has a boss....
Mary
Proud member of SNOSS. I earned mine!
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
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genphideaux
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Mary,
This was exactly were I wanted my post to go, but it got bogged down by the run away and hide to fight another day mentality that has been so prevalent in our sport lately. I for one am tired of being treated as a budget line item.
Hopefully this post will generate positive, thought out, and planned courses of actions to fix some of the chronic problems in our leadership. Not digress into the state of let's make absolutely sure we will have a confirmed victory before we address the issues.
This was exactly were I wanted my post to go, but it got bogged down by the run away and hide to fight another day mentality that has been so prevalent in our sport lately. I for one am tired of being treated as a budget line item.
Hopefully this post will generate positive, thought out, and planned courses of actions to fix some of the chronic problems in our leadership. Not digress into the state of let's make absolutely sure we will have a confirmed victory before we address the issues.
We have but one life to live, live it like you stole it, live it right up to the hilt.
God Bless the USA
Dawg
God Bless the USA
Dawg
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Innocent
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Dawg,
In conversations on the line with at least two other shooters Carol and Gator we all agreed that our suggestion sheets would be a format created on the computer as an attachment to the NRA. I am advocating a concerted effort from the interested parties to present the suggestions with possible solutions to mangers higher than Greg Conner as it is obvious he will not do anything for us.
The obvious issues of how to deal with the wind problems at Raton are minor, what is not minor is how the descision was made and excuted...typical to previous decisions made in previous matches. This is just a repeat of poor preformance by a paid employee, whatever his excuse is, it is still poor performance, time for a change.
I am open for collective thought on how to deal with the dictatorial inconsistant decision maker for positive change in support of the the sport.
Thus my opening this topic in the forum.
Mary
In conversations on the line with at least two other shooters Carol and Gator we all agreed that our suggestion sheets would be a format created on the computer as an attachment to the NRA. I am advocating a concerted effort from the interested parties to present the suggestions with possible solutions to mangers higher than Greg Conner as it is obvious he will not do anything for us.
The obvious issues of how to deal with the wind problems at Raton are minor, what is not minor is how the descision was made and excuted...typical to previous decisions made in previous matches. This is just a repeat of poor preformance by a paid employee, whatever his excuse is, it is still poor performance, time for a change.
I am open for collective thought on how to deal with the dictatorial inconsistant decision maker for positive change in support of the the sport.
Thus my opening this topic in the forum.
Mary
Proud member of SNOSS. I earned mine!
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
Proud member of IBDF Club...
Guilty until proven Innocent by the press.
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genphideaux
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Mary,
If the attachment is also in letter format it would allow those of us who did not attend to also participate in this corrective action. The one voice one idea seems to make the best impression. I applaud your effort and foresight.
If the attachment is also in letter format it would allow those of us who did not attend to also participate in this corrective action. The one voice one idea seems to make the best impression. I applaud your effort and foresight.
We have but one life to live, live it like you stole it, live it right up to the hilt.
God Bless the USA
Dawg
God Bless the USA
Dawg
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Bob259
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Mail in campaign
Why don't we use one of the NRA's own tactics. Draft a form letter, by someone with better writing skills than I, list all the concerns in a 'professional' manner (list examples if we have them) and post here with the email addresses of who to send to and everyone copy and past the letter into an email and send it to the NRA Sr. Staff/Management.
Also one of the concerns I see, in addtion to those that have been mentioned, is how the NRA is looked at by the International shooters that travel to the US to shoot the Nationals and spend all that money to get here. If we are disappointed imagine how they must feel. Fortunately they have been to our other venues and know it's mostly when we are at Raton where there are bigger problems are.
Also one of the concerns I see, in addtion to those that have been mentioned, is how the NRA is looked at by the International shooters that travel to the US to shoot the Nationals and spend all that money to get here. If we are disappointed imagine how they must feel. Fortunately they have been to our other venues and know it's mostly when we are at Raton where there are bigger problems are.
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Bob259
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Dawg, Looks like you and I were thinking the exact same thing... not the first time I might add eithergenphideaux wrote:Mary,
If the attachment is also in letter format it would allow those of us who did not attend to also participate in this corrective action. The one voice one idea seems to make the best impression. I applaud your effort and foresight.
