Starting fresh without NRA

[Kevin6q]

Hello All,
I figured this was a separate offshoot from the hunter class thread.

I've heard many silo shooters mention the NRA does little to support the sport of silo shooting. This might be an out of the pan into the fire type thing. Do you believe silo would grow, die, crawl back to NRA begging if a separate silo organization was started? Workload aside, (I know it would be huge) would breaking away allow the shooters to determine rules, etc.? I agree with Innocent that having a few more pins and awards might keep people around. Having a pig as a tie tack is a conversation starter.

Most ranges that host matches have space, targets, people to run matches so, in theory, the only change is the banner being flown governing the match.
Nothing will ever be perfect but do you believe silo would grow and retain participants if the NRA was removed? I no longer need to be an NRA member to compete in NRA sanctioned events which makes me believe the NRA is loosening up in hopes of generating more competition.

[dave imas]

There will still need to be a set of rules for the game, which, perhaps, a committee of shooter representatives will develop and vote on? Something like our current structure?

I think as long as we have actual people involved we will always have all those challenges that people bring to the table. If we could just get rid of the people in this sport we would probably be much better off but, until we figure out how to do that we might be well riding a very similar horse of a slightly different color.

[jneihouse]

Just my thoughts, for what their worth....The current situation being bandied about (rules governing matches and whatever) are just not bad enough, and the NRA just does not mis-manage enough for the revolution that would have to take place in order for another viable rifle silhouette shooting organization to take hold and survive....Keep in mind, no matter how passionate we are about our sport, it is still just a hobby for 99.9% of us, very few of us make any money from the sport and what we put into the sport by far outweighs any financial reward from the sport and hobbies without the marketing potential to swing bid dollars (hobbies that have turned into cash cows are exemplified by professional baseball, football, basketball, and to a lesser extent big time college college football) rarely support enough emotion for any type of radical change....

Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary....

Kitty

[Jason]

It really seems to me that it's not the NRA that is a problem. It's a small handful of individuals who aren't as responsive to the silhouette shooters as they ought to be. It would seem to be a lot easier to deal with those few people, whether by awakening them to their responsibilities or replacing them, than to try to recreate the whole organization. I guess I'm in the "leave the rules and structure alone, just fix the current admin where it needs it" camp on this one.

[jneihouse]

t would seem to be a lot easier to deal with those few people, whether by awakening them to their responsibilities or replacing them

Agree wholeheartedly....But good luck with that....But then, Regan did get Mr. Gorbachev to "Take down that Wall"

Kitty

[Jason]

t would seem to be a lot easier to deal with those few people, whether by awakening them to their responsibilities or replacing them

Agree wholeheartedly....But good luck with that....But then, Regan did get Mr. Gorbachev to "Take down that Wall"

Kitty

If it's just one person, then that's where to start. If it's more than one, then prioritize them in political order and start with #1 on the list. Once we have enough well thought out complaints, then they should be taken to the individual currently needing a kick in the pants. If that individual does not resolve the issues, then that individual's management ladder starts getting climbed. This can not be the work of one individual. It has to be a large number of people who will be seen as having a prior investment in the sport and who are prominent as regular match directors or match winners at large matches, or who have had extensive impact into the sport in the past. For instance, Greg Connors has no idea who Jason McCurry is. Even if he looks me up in the NRA record system, there wouldn't be anything special to see. That means that me asking for a change alone wouldn't accomplish much, even if my points are valid, if he's at all resistant to that change. Even a few of me probably wouldn't. Fifty or a hundred of me backing up a few names who everyone in silhouette shooting recognizes is a different matter, though. Once it gets to that point, attention will be gotten.

Then the point being made better be valid, with real data to back it up, or it won't go anywhere. Bitching won't do anything but cause more hard feelings and a bigger wall between the shooters and the NRA for the next attempt to get things fixed. There has to be a problem statement, with data. Then we have to suggest at least one viable solution, with data. Throwing in personal feelings or statements like "Blahblah doesn't care about silhouette shooters!" have no place in the discussion because they can't be verified as true or not, and are purely personal opinion. A statement like "This has been a problem for xx long and concern has been voiced by xxx many people over the last x years, but it has not been addressed or even responded to." is much better and leads into presentation of the data to support the statement. At the end of the complaint by whatever method it is communicated, there needs to be an expected action requested and a date that the action should be done by or the issue will be escalated. Both the date and the action should be realistic. If the action requires being discussed at a committee meeting and the deadline date is before that committee meets again, then it's not realistic to demand it be done by that date.

Keep in mind that everyone has his/her own personal agenda and beliefs as to what the right way to do something is. The key is to help them achieve what they want while they help us achieve what we want. In this case, unless someone knows the individual being asked for change, then the straight-forward honest approach is the best. If someone does know the person being asked, then the request can be worded to go along with that person's agenda. Then it will be that person going to whatever committee with the support of a large number of shooters instead of that person arguing against the shooters in a meeting that the shooters probably won't get to be physically present for. In either case, leave the personal feelings and past arguments at the door and deal only in real data. There's a very good chance that a concise problem statement with a viable suggestion for a solution, alone with the pledge to help implement that solution, will get a much better response than everyone seems to be expecting. Not everything has to be a big fight.

[deadeyeky]

well sed jason.....

[Jim Beckley]

I have posted many times in the past about the NRA Silhouette Dept. About the only thing that hasn't been said is that anything that is posted here is all and good, but it is like preaching to the choir. I am exchanging letters with Mike Krei (Connors Boss) with the concerns that I have with the way the program is being ran. I don't know if anyone else is doing the same, but the old addage The squeeky wheel gets the grease is somethimes true, otherwise if you have a complaint and just post it here, you are just getting it off your chest!

[Jason]

That's exactly my point. Either issues are big enough to do something about or they aren't. If they aren't, then complaining here is fine for sharing the frustration and everyone feels a little better. If they are, then lets get together and give specific problem statements, suggest real solutions, and be willing to put forth effort to make those solutions happen. I deal with conflicts between teams in Microsoft, or even between outside companies and Microsoft, on a daily basis. I'd be glad to help if it's needed, but being one person who isn't well known in the silhouette shooting community wouldn't give much credence to anything I put forward. If anyone has issues that they'd like to try to get changed, feel free to throw them out there to be discussed. My own issue of never getting that certificate and my grand slam pin for that last leg of my smallbore standard rifle grand slam isn't really a big enough deal to be a group thing.

[Travelor]

I worked for one of the larger US Government Agencies for 32+ years/ The "corporate" Matra was that the 1st rule of an organization is the maintain the organization, THEN serve the customer. Sound familiar?

Their "corporate" rationale was that if the organization fails to survive, then they could not serve the public, rather than serve the public AND the orgaization will continue.

Some how we need to get the attention of the NRA that if they are not more responsive, their organization is at risk.

How many other shooters have besides me have received an NRA qualification card for a class that we have not even shot?

George

[mordecai]

One could leverage the power of the internet (like a website or something) and organize people to file or petition their grievances for better effect. Just saying...

[Bob259]

One could leverage the power of the internet (like a website or something) and organize people to file or petition their grievances for better effect. Just saying...

Internet and emails kind of get lost in the shuffle. Most will tell you a hand written letter sent through the regular mail gets far more attention for any group/person you send it to.

[mordecai]

One could leverage the power of the internet (like a website or something) and organize people to file or petition their grievances for better effect. Just saying...

Internet and emails kind of get lost in the shuffle. Most will tell you a hand written letter sent through the regular mail gets far more attention for any group/person you send it to.

That's kind of what I meant. You use the connectivity of a website to organize the people, but bombard the organizations with letters, phone calls, petitions, etc... from each individual, perhaps with a common letter or talking points... Routinely referred to as a "fire mission" in forum talk...

[Byron]

Hey Mordecai:

That's kind of what I meant. You use the connectivity of a website to organize the people, but bombard the organizations with letters, phone calls, petitions, etc... from each individual, perhaps with a common letter or talking points... Routinely referred to as a "fire mission" in forum talk...

Great idea but where would we find a website about silhouette shooting?

Byron

[mordecai]

Great idea but where would we find a website about silhouette shooting?

Byron

Well jeez, I'm not going to do everything for you! Go look one up.