Outrageous!!!

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:48 pm

What can I say, except that auto workers have a better union than college professors...

First, recognize that much of what's going on now is union busting, and that if it weren't for foreign manufacturers trying to keep the UAW out, their wages would be much lower. Much of the pay differential is due to retiree health insurance benefits that were negotiated when life expectancy was lower and expecting some form of national health care before it became a burden. Factor out that benefit and there's more parity in pay between the different companies.

Second, auto companies around the world hurt right now and are getting help from their governments because losing them is unthinkable. My personal belief is that we must preserve what little manufacturing expertise we have left in this country: We cannot prosper as a service only economy because that does not create wealth or trade surplus. Germany and China have the most significant trade surpluses, and those were accumulated by making stuff. The notion that we can maintain our position as a world power by inventing moving money around is bull, since the world is full of clever people.

Third, despite their bone headed decisions, they're in trouble because the economy is in trouble. Yes, past losses are all theirs, but current troubles are rooted in problems they didn't cause and couldn't control. All the hybrid models in the world wouldn't help them right now, and even that much was decided by management, not labor - don't blame all of this on the union.

Fourth, at least one economist that believes they're doomed anyway says they represent the cheapest form of jobs program available right now, and points out that bailout costs are nothing compared to the other costs if they're allowed to fail.

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:21 pm

Nice speech. Doesn't really address why the UAW members shouldn't take a cut in pay. I'm a mean old (well, 35 anyway) conservative that believes in pay for work done, though.

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:51 am

Here's to that 'B' rated movie actor Ronald Reagan and his handling of the flight controllers strike and that union.

Cheers,
Mary

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:55 am

Let us not forget that... Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Mary

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:54 am

What kind of pay cut do you have in mind? And limited to UAW members? How about this - nobody makes over $100,000 a year until the company returns to profitability. Sounds good to me, but then I'm a teacher in a "Right to Work State" with 0 job security and a lifetime of watching union busting, and seeing decent jobs plummet to minimum wage drudge work eventually given to illegal aliens bused in by the company straight from the border. Housed in cracker boxes owned and rented out to them by company executives. Go right ahead and tell me about union abuses - they damn sure exist - just don't pretend that the answer is giving management more power.

Nice speech? Thanks - wrote it myself without depending on agenda driven operatives from either side. They're both corrupt, but management has had the upper hand for thirty years now and that's pretty ugly, too.

dwl · Post by **dwl** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:02 am

Having worked for major aerospace manufacturers (really just flying buses) I believe that the real problem is with management. The treat people like sh!t unless there is a union, they negociate bad contracts with the unions and their finanacial and procduct management sucks.

Sure sales are off due to the economy but if I could see a down turn coming why didn't they. Why didn't they plan for reduced sales and why are they borrowing short term to meet payroll!

The unions have some serious problems but they didn't cause this one, Management did. The solution, fund the retirement and medical plans sufficient to meet their obligations and then cut them loose as independent entities. Get an agreement with the unions for qualified employees and treat them nice then make sure they are productive. Build a financial reserve for the down years and make product development leaner and more productive.

As for taking my taxes with threat of prison to give it to some slick liar from Detroit, that's no different than what caused Concord and Lexington. Not ethical even if the politicians dress nice.

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:27 am

I first predicted this collapse when the price of a nice car passed the cost of a starter home......

Kitty

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:44 am

How about the UAW just accepting the fact that they will only be paid a set amount of money or if they prefer they can hit the streets and find a job. You know like everyone else has to do when their jobs aren't bailed out.

Should I go asking UAW to bail me out if my corporation goes under do you really think they will be falling over themselves to give me their money? Hardly!

The unions and the management created this mess. I blame th unions for their greed and the company managment for their stupidity in agreeing to these moronic contracts.

If you went to a investment meeting to start a compnay with the business model the Big 3 now have you would flat be laughed out the room. Yet we are to believe it is a sound investment? Bullshit it is a money pit and if I want to toss my money in a hole I will dig one with my own shovel I bought myself and toss it in the ground. I sure don't need big government and organized labor to do it for me.

Just because the Dems have been sucking on the Union leaders peckers for decades doesn't suddenly give them the right to take my money to make sure the UAW workers don't have to take a cut in their already bloated pay for operating a impact wrench.

I say tell the UAW they either take the new pay or hit the street someone else will fill their job at the lesser rate I am sure. It is simple really either you take this amount of pay or you will have NO PAY. Seems like a no brainer to me.

All this to big to fail bullshit has got to end as well. Entire civilizations have failed NOTHING is too big to fail. If this is going to be the motto of big business that had managed to run itself into the ground all on it's own then we need to have a cut off point at which they can be allowed to fail like anyone elses business that is not government subsidized.

I agree both parties are selling this country out and not until everyone can see that will anything change.

If I have to give money to bail them out after giving them money to buy their product I will never buy another product from them again. The way things are going once we have bailed out all the to big to fail corps none of us will have any money leftover to buy a car. So then what will the Big 3 whine about? Will they say oh look we re-tooled and got our union contracts in line with reality and now we have these efficient cars to sell you. So come on out and buy the cars you already paid to make sure were built! Yeah thats the ticket!

Dee

metalhead · Post by **metalhead** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:25 am

I was in the IAM for nearly twenty years when I worked as a machinist for the Boeing Co. By the time I finally walked away from that job, most of the Local 751 union leadership was in prison.

Throughout my lifetime, all I have seen from the Teamsters, UAW, and other organized labor is a legalized organized criminal conspiracy.

I'm with you Dee, If they give this criminals a failout, I will never, ever by another vehicle from them.

Jerry G · Post by **Jerry G** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:35 am

I am not sure that the $70 is the total cost of labor or their hourly wage.

Nobody has a better union than college profs.

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:14 pm

Jerry G wrote:I am not sure that the $70 is the total cost of labor or their hourly wage.

Nobody has a better union than college profs.

Not around here! Administration does as they please and we can like it or lump it! They definitely have the better deal!

duckgumbo · Post by **duckgumbo** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:45 pm

Could be because the LIBERAL college and university staffs are filling the heads of the young people with total bullshit! Global warming? What about snow in New Orleans? How about the new text books for schools that call Reagan a war monger? These assholes are trying to rewrite history!

duckgumbo · Post by **duckgumbo** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:48 pm

by the way, I just purchased a new Lincoln for my wife to try and help. Besides, they are almost giving these cars away! Now is the best time in history to buy a car form GM or Ford. I never liked Chrysler and they are privately owned now since Mercedes sold them because they realized they were a piece of shit!

GM and Ford are not going anywhere! Hopefully the Unions will!

duckgumbo · Post by **duckgumbo** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:49 pm

Are my post counts coming up?

duckgumbo · Post by **duckgumbo** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:49 pm

I need to make AAA soon!